We blush as we discuss sweetie nights of skin contact, straddling the future and the past to learn about Rosé. Matthew's steps into the void and does his part to bring about Judgement Day as he reveals a diabolical secret and a future hope. We're pressed, crushed and fermented as we get snobby about Chardonnay and yearn to be where the people are.
Matthew's Now but Wow! - Primer podcast
Speaker 1 0:00
Hi. I'm Molly.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:05
And I'm Matthew.
Molly 0:06
And this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any ever tempted.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:14
Today, we've been drinking Rosae we've
Molly 0:17
literally had one and I also want to say that today so the day that this episode comes out, it's my spouse's birthday.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:27
Oh, happy birthday.
Molly 0:28
Salza Happy Birthday salsa. And it was my birthday five days ago. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:33
Happy Birthday hot some Mulki or any of your other nicknames? Ah, anyway, Candy Fein 69 for 20.
Molly 0:45
I love that you remembered anyway, but we're recording this episode in the past. Yeah. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:53
a bunch of a bunch of velociraptors just went by Jeff Goldblum, Jeff Goldblum is also he's going to be our guest later. If you if he manages to escape the loss or after?
Molly 1:04
Yeah, time will tell. And in the future, you will hear this episode. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:09
yeah, the future like like, I think I think I'm sort of like setting up the idea that the movie Jurassic Park took place during the Jurassic period, which I don't think was the point of the movie. But no,
Molly 1:20
that was the opposite. The point of the movie. Yeah, if
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:24
if it had taken place during the Jurassic period, we would have been the weird out of place animal. That's right.
Molly 1:29
Maybe Matthew, you should stop drinking the Rosae because you are already like an extra version of yourself.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:38
I'm a little bit extra. I don't I don't feel like I need to apologize for being you
Molly 1:43
don't you don't. Okay. So anyway, this episode was suggested by no one. But I want to give a special A special thanks to my co host, Matthew here. Because we've been kicking around the idea of doing a Rosae episode for a long time. And I have like, put it off at least mentally. Because it seemed too complicated. It was so complicated talking about winemaking is it's just not where I want to put my energies. And so Matthew, this guy, this guy right here, this guy stepped into the void and said, I'll research it. If I
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:21
was stepping into the void. I would not have volunteered. Did
Molly 2:26
I did you came out the other side. A little bit pinker a little bit pinker.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:32
I thank you. fun researching Rosae. Okay,
Molly 2:35
well, I'm excited to learn about Rosie because I certainly enjoyed drinking it. And yeah, okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:40
so let's let's go down memory lane.
Molly 2:43
So Matthew, I remember in a way that I never really understood. I remember hearing my mother disparage something called White Zinfandel.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:52
Oh, okay. What's that? Rosae that is Rosae for sure. Okay,
Molly 2:56
so what was what's the deal? All right, we'll
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:58
definitely get into the white zinfandel story, but like I remember kind of, you know, sort of becoming aware that wine existed like in the 90s kind of and at the time, there was like sort of, like a serious food person orthodoxy which, which I think still has like some echoes in the present in the same way like you can extract the DNA from an Miskito and Amber.
Molly 3:21
Oh, you can extract this orthodoxy from the past. Oh, okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:25
That like real wine is red wine, maybe sometimes white wine if you're having fish and like Rosae or pink wine is like you know, fake wine for fake people.
Molly 3:36
Okay, I've definitely heard this about Rosae I had not heard this about red or white wine so I'm really glad to be introduced to this prejudice which seems so important
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:45
and white zinfandel was was held out as like as like the quintessential example of like, you know, a sweet mass market wine of no consequence that that No, like real food person would ever be caught drinking. And of course, it's delicious. But at
Molly 3:59
the time, and I know we're going to talk more about about whites infantile, but at the time, to be fair, were there roses that were dry like we might enjoy today? Or was it kind of more like, do you remember riuniti or like Asti Spumante talked about
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:15
a couple of Rose A's? That's that field exactly the same sort of market Nikkei Okay, so yes, you could certainly go into like a serious wine store and get like a province Sol Rosae. That would be like dry and like made in traditional style, but it just wasn't popular thought is.
Molly 4:31
Okay, let's talk about what this stuff is and why people have disparaged it. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:36
so if you had been peeking in my window yesterday, as you so often do, yes. You would have seen me having a long conversation with chat GPT about how you make Rosae and like the different methods and like which regions use which methods Wait,
Molly 4:53
and if you hold on wait a minute, I'm sorry this I don't mean to turn this into like an AI episode, but I have intention. Only always avoided chat GPT I've never used it. I've never engaged with it. I don't want to download it or whatever. What made you choose to go the chat GPT route?
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:10
I started out by reading the Wikipedia page and Googling and then I still had questions.
Molly 5:15
And so why did you take the questions to chat? GPT? Is it because that's the only format where you can pose a question like that? Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:22
yeah, where you can, like have a conversation. It's like, sort of like having a conversation with Google. Is it? Is it like more likely to produce false information than Google? Maybe a little bit?
Molly 5:35
Do you speak aloud to it? No, I typed you typed. And so do you go to like to go to like, chat gpt.com Or did you have to like download an hour to a website? Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:49
They're always improving it so like, you know, it's on the verge of like, you know, taking over and destroying all humans Yeah, yeah, I find that I'm trying so I'm trying to do my part to help with that. But yeah, but like I you know, I read about like after I read the Wikipedia summary of like the many different ways you can make Rosae I'm like, what what maturation like the Sanyo a method like I need to like talk to someone about this and like I don't have like David Rosen gardens phone number or another. What
Molly 6:19
about the guy European vine selections?
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:21
I did talk to him about this a little bit but like he didn't want he didn't want to get into like a detailed thing about about didn't want to like pull out like a chalk board and start didn't want to pull out a chalkboard. You didn't want to describe how some of the white wines had like a chalky, you know, chalk aroma.
Molly 6:37
Oh, okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:38
This I think this is a good thing like like a flinty chalky aroma.
Molly 6:42
Okay. Wow, this is so interesting. So okay, you This episode was brought to us in part by a conversation you had with Chet GPT. Sure.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:52
Okay.
Molly 6:52
All right. This is interesting.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:54
First time, it's just the first time I'm talking about it on the shop. Whoa, you've been keeping it under wraps. Yeah, I mean, keeping it under wraps. I don't
Molly 7:01
know why it feels so weirded out about it. I think it's because of that. That article where that guy was at from the New York Times had a conversation with a chat bot and the chat bot went feral went feral. Yeah, that was upsetting to me. I was
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:13
upsetting. Yeah, yeah. But that didn't happen. This time. I did learn some things about Rosae. And like, some of these things are probably going to be wrong, not because of chat. GPT. But because of me, okay. My overall conclusion is like you and I should not get into the winemaking business because there are so many different variables and like, we're going to do it all wrong. Oh, man. We're gonna we're gonna like first of all, like, did you know that? Like most wine isn't made by like someone stomping grapes with their bare feet anymore? I think I did. I did. I found that very disappointing. Okay, so there's four ways to make Rosae, which is pink wine. There's direct press, there's Sanjay, there's limited laceration, and there's blending, okay. And we're going to talk about all of them. It's gonna be okay, no, I'm ready. Okay, here's the most common method for making Rosae is direct press. That is the type of Rosae we're drinking today, which is a from the south wall region, and AOC wine from France. And it said Dohmen lob, a 2022. Okay, so to make anyone you start by crushing some grapes, the first thing I learned that I really didn't know is that the crushing of the grapes and the pressing of the grapes are usually two separate processes in winemaking. So you crushed the grapes to like release some juice and make must. And must is the mixture of juice and the other stuff, which is called pomade, which is skins, seeds and stems, okay. But to make a direct press Rosae you skip the you you combine crushing and pressing, so you start with some red grapes, got it, and you kind of gently crushed them and gently press them. So you produce a lightly pink wine. Okay, and that is going to have mostly the flavor of a white wine.
Molly 8:57
Okay, and we should we should say here, because I'm reading the agenda, that the pressing involves separating the juice from the pomade. Yeah. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:06
it's squeezing, squeezing the juice out from the rest of the stuff. And like you can you have decisions to make in every part of this process. So like, you decide how hard to crush the grapes, how long to leave the pomade, marinating masquerading in the must pay, and then how hard to press. So the harder you crash, the longer you Masquerade. And the harder you press, the redder the wine is going to be. Assuming you're starting with red grapes, okay,
Molly 9:31
this makes sense. All right. So yeah, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:33
if you want to make a red wine, you crushed the grapes kind of hard. You master ate the wine by leaving the pomade in place for a couple of weeks. So those red grape skins are turning the juice red, and then you press hard. Okay? Yeah. So to make a direct press Rosae you crushed gently and you press right away, then you get this, okay? And this point we're drinking is made, I think with mostly Pinot Noir and Gamay grapes.
Molly 9:54
So in this case, we've got let's say Pinot Noir and Gamay grapes, these red grapes And they're crushed and pressed pretty quickly. So any contact between like, the meat of the grape grape meat and the skin is happening just during that time of crushing and pressing? They're not
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:12
Yeah, so like, sorry. Yeah, so like, like minutes. God basically. Okay. And this is the most common style in Provence, which is, I think the world's largest producer of Rosae. It's certainly like the kind of original producer of Rosae
Molly 10:27
and Provos Sol roses tend to be very light pink.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:31
Yes. And so direct press typically produces a light pink wine because there just hasn't been, there hasn't been much contact between the skins and and the NG juice. Okay,
Molly 10:41
so Oh, okay. All right. So this is interesting, right, right, which this from other methods.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:47
Okay, so the next two most popular Rosae methods are Sanjay and limited maturation, and they're almost the same. And I don't totally understand why you choose one over the other. So So let's, let's start with limited maturation. So it's exactly what it sounds like, you crush the graves. And then instead of a pressing immediately, you let them mass rate for a short time anywhere from like two hours to a couple of days. So they have more skin caught more skin content at direct Express Rosae. And so this produces a darker pink and more full bodied wine than direct press and the best known region producing limited maturation Rosacea is Tavel I think I've seen that from the Rhone Valley. So that's like the other big French Rosae region. Okay. Okay, those are those are darker and more full bodied than province all roses overall. Okay, and San yay, which, which is like bled is very similar to limited laceration, except that you bleed off some of the juice, and then leave the rest to master aid further and become red wine. Oh, so it's like a byproduct of red wine production. Okay. Like, I don't know, I don't know, like, why you choose one one of those over the other? I guess it depends whether you're in the in like already, like I was gonna make some red wine today. Maybe I'll like, like, bleed a little off and bottle some Rosae. That's what I would do. And
Molly 12:07
so then there's this other method that is blending and can I guess what this is? Yes. Let's see. Is this where you just blend according to desired characteristics? Some white wine and some red wine?
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:19
Yep. Usually, like it doesn't take much red wine to turn on white wine pink. I am so like 5% Typically, maybe 10% at the most.
Molly 12:29
So these would already be crushed and pressed, would they be fermented? Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:34
that's a good question. The The impression I got was that like these are these are like wines that are almost already finished. And you're you're blending them got it. And this is this is the main method used for producing rose a champagne, and is very rarely used for still wines. Okay. I think I don't know why, I guess probably because it seems like cheating.
Molly 12:54
Yeah, who knows? That's, that's really interesting. I mean, you could do it at home, and it would probably not taste great. I mean, would it be bad? Probably not. But it seems like if you're making sparkling wines like champagne, you're probably going to use some white champagne grapes and some red champagne grapes. Yep. Make these two different. Oh, yes. And this. This is one of the two minutes so what happens to the red champagne grapes because we they never make red champagne.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:20
Oh, I can't answer this. First of all, almost all Champagne is made with red grapes. Like at least some red grapes. Okay, so I remember this from the champagne episode. It's all coming back to me now. I was curious because I know that like one style of champagne blanc de Noir is made up from 100% Pinot Noir grapes, but he's not a pink wine at all. That's right. And so I was like how like we already determined that like when you make a direct press Rosae you're just kind of pressing some red grapes. When you make a blanc to noir champagne, or I think just like any champagne that has red grapes in it, which is most of them. You crushed the grapes extremely gently and also press extremely gently to like get like the minimal amount of skin contact.
Molly 14:04
Okay, so the minimal amount of like color release from the skin but
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:08
like Brazil is so so they are making some red wines in Champagne purely to use for blending to make Rosae champagnes. Okay. Okay, okay.
Molly 14:17
So, okay, so it seems like given the fact that this is absolutely related to red wine. Yeah. It seems that this is a pretty old way of making wine like yeah, why was this so not a thing that we drank for?
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:38
Oh, this, this is a really good question. Oh, I
Molly 14:41
wonder if you're jumping? No, no, no, no,
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:43
that's a good question. Wait, let's let's get into the history. I was gonna mention one other thing which is like what happens if you take white grapes and and like Master ate them for a couple of weeks, like you were making red wine? That's orange wine, which has become super popular recently. And that's kind of the answer to your question. which is that wine is extremely faddish and trend oriented and has been for as long as wine existed, like, Whatever, whatever seems like is like the conventional wisdom and wine today, it will not be 20 years from now, and will seem completely ridiculous 200 years from now. So, but you're right, rosacea is probably the oldest type of wine. And that's not because it's, it's like, you know, it is easy to make, but it's not necessarily, like easier to make than red wine. It's that red wine was considered a defect for centuries. And like, like, if
Molly 15:36
you accidentally left the juice and the must together, you learn too long, right? So left the juice and the Pomo mace together, right, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:45
So we talked about how like, like, for a long time, sparkling wine was considered a defect and champagne was like a still red wine. This was the same kind of thing. They're like, yeah, like, like, everyone was like, you know, gross. Like, why would you leave your like grape guts in contact with the Jews? Nobody wants to drink that. And it looks it looks like blood. It looks like garbage. So yeah,
Molly 16:07
I mean, it's like the same thing. Like if you were making apple juice, and you made it by putting an apple in your food processor. Yeah. And you were like, here. Let's let it sit for a little while. But all right, like, why are you doing that? Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:21
So according to Wikipedia, quote, there was an understanding as early as the time of the ancient Greeks and Roman winemakers that harder pressing and letting the Jews sit for a period with the skin would make darker hardier wines, but the resulting wines were often considered too harsh and less desirable. Okay. Yeah, like, if you think like in the world of beer, like for a while now, like, IPAs have been kind of the most popular thing among craft beer, that's going to swing back at some point for sure. Like having like a super bitter hoppy beer was considered a defect at some point. You
Molly 16:51
know, it's interesting to me. I mean, I don't really know for sure. But it seems to me that IPAs have had a really long day in the sun. It does seem impaired, for instance, to Chardonnay, which I would
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:04
love to spend a long day in the sun with some Chardonnay. No,
Molly 17:07
but but Chardonnay was I don't know when was it the 80s? Was it the 90s? I don't remember, but Chardonnay was the wine you choose. And now if someone chooses Chardonnay, we look at them as though they're less sophisticated.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:24
I think yeah, I think that's true.
Molly 17:25
I'm sorry, I should speak only for myself.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:27
Yeah, no, no, I absolutely. Look down my nose at the Chardonnay drinkers.
Molly 17:32
It's my favorite pastime. I have nothing better to do with my time. Um,
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:37
I mean, but like, it's, you know, it'll it'll happen at some point. Like, you know, these these things are like, just trends. Yeah, totally. Like, you know, one day I like looked into the beer case and was like, Oh, they don't do bottles anymore. Everything is cans now. That sort of like snuck up on me. Oh, I don't think I ever thought about it. But you're right. Yeah, that happened like within the last 10 years, right. I guess so. It's wild. Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Okay. Also Also from Wikipedia. I don't know quite what time period this is talking about. But quote to the powerful English market. The most prized clerics were according to wine historian Hugh Johnson, the van deun Dewey, or wine of one night, which were pale rosy colored wines made from Jews that was allowed only a single night of skin contact. Oh, wow. Yeah. If you could have a single skin contact with any virgin living or dead can I think on it or any person org right. Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna think about Gilbert grave Yes, so then after World War Two, we're so we're jumping ahead from ancient times to after World War Two. Okay, lightly sparkling Portuguese rose A's became extremely popular worldwide, including in North America, particularly the brands Mateus and Lancers. Have you ever heard of either of these? Not? No. So I know I know Mateus because like I remember hearing my parents talk about it. I don't know if we ever like had it in the house. But it was like it was like riuniti on it. So it was like a sweet like, you know, super easy to drink wine that was sold in like a very recognizable sort of like fat bottle. Okay. And was was super popular, like like the late 40s 50s 60s Probably into the 70s. Okay, and Lancers. I know because it appears in the lyrics of a pavement song. Okay. But which song is it? Stayed in neck on a wider shade of trash. It's that one. And right. So I don't think I've ever tasted either of those. I did and like they're not popular at all anymore, at least in the US. Then in 1975 the year I was born, Sutter Home winery in California had a stuck fermentation involving a vat of Rosae wine that they were working on. Have you ever ever experienced a stuck fermentation? If not, okay, well, if you do You'll never forget what happened stuck fermentations when the wind stops fermenting too early and it sounds like it can happen for a few different reasons, but the most common is like it got too warm and the yeast died and so apparently you can't just like put in more yeast and say like keep it rolling. Because because the yeast produce like byproducts that inhibit more yeast from growing Okay, and so like you're stuck at that point, but winemaker Bob Trinchero tasted the semi fermented rose a wine and decided to try selling it marketed as White Zinfandel. A huge hit
Molly 20:34
Wait a minute, so white zinfandel was created by Sutter
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:38
Home It was created by cetera
Molly 20:39
Yeah, no that Okay. Have you ever tasted it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:42
I have. Yeah, it's it's like exactly what you think it's you know, it's very tasty. It's very like clean drinking sweet does it have sugar added it doesn't have sugar added sugar. It's just like an arrested fermentation. Got it. Okay, so
Molly 20:54
the sugars haven't been converted fully doubt, right? Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:57
for most of the late 20th century, like, including, like when White Zinfandel first came on the scene, I think Rosae wines were mostly labeled blush in the US. And this is also a thing that was like, I vaguely remember this, which was initially a trademark of Mill Creek vineyards. So I guess the word was the phrase, but but then, like, everyone started using it. So I don't know. Like, I guess they lost their trademark or something. Okay. By 1997 22% of the wine sold in the US was blush wine. But this dry. Oh, is it like in the form of white zinfandel in the form of like, sweet, like mostly sweet Rosae wines, not just white zinfandel. Okay, yeah, but that was probably the most popular like the white zinfandel. And blush were sort of like synonyms for like a sweet, sweet rose a wine. Okay, this dropped to 15%. By 2003, as red wine became more popular, and the term Rosae came into fashion. The the term Rosae would not have been well known at all among American like the average American drinker until the late 90s, early 2000s.
Molly 22:07
That is really, yeah, that is very surprising. Not surprising, like within my lived experience, because it is one of those words, that seems like it just popped into the vernacular fairly recently. But that's a really young usage, right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:22
So it was like, around that time that like, people were like, Okay, well, like, you know, we've been drinking this sort of, like, sweet, easy drink and stuff from California. Like, you know, now we're interested in like, authenticity and like, you know, serious like, you know, it's time to get serious about like wine Where does like the real pink wine come from, but what do they call it?
Molly 22:41
And so did did provolone, Sol, pink wine sort of rise to prominence in the US.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:48
For the first time, yeah. And it was always had always been labeled Rosae on the labels. And you and you asked me a question that was like, this is a good question. I hadn't thought about it. Like, why do we say white wine and red wine, but we never say Rosae wine? Like, it's always just Rosae. I couldn't come up with like a definitive answer to this, but I think it's just because we don't use that word for anything else. And so it can stand alone. Okay, the analogy I came up with was like, you can like go into a bar and say give me a pilsner. But you wouldn't say give me a dark
Molly 23:17
or you wouldn't say give me a wheat,
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:19
right? Give me a wheat. That's, like, give me give me a give me an M, give me an O et cetera, okay.
Oh, there's one other use of the word Rosae that I'm familiar with. I'm sure there are others too. But sometimes it's perhaps Rosebud and Rosae DocBook is has become really popular in Korea like the rice cakes do yes. So it's usually it's it's typically like traditionally like a red stew made with lots of go to John but if you add in like milk or cream and top it with cheese, that's Rosae DocBook eat very tasty.
Molly 24:01
This is kind of like making a like a pink sauce. In Italian American pasta making.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:09
It's totally like making a pink so I love that except
Molly 24:12
they don't call it tomato. Yeah. Okay. Is Provost still where we think of rosacea is coming from or is it kind of just
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:22
it's loaded? Yeah, it's made all over the world and like California still produces a lot like in Italy. They call it rose risotto. And in Italy, they make a really unusual one from the via Tao ista. I don't know how to say that to you. I don't Valdosta Valdosta made with permitted grapes. It's called a rose Rosato notto dolly because they are thin skinned red grapes that produce a rose a even if you like Master ate them for two weeks. Interesting. But to this day, like about two thirds of the wine produced in Provence is Rosae and like, you know, if you're if you're wondering like what do I pair with Rosae like, you know, classic Provence Sol dish. is like blue Bay's or aoli essentially like grew up with Rosae and go really well together. About 5% of champagne produced is Rosae champagne. Okay, in Spain it's it's Rosato, and the the big region is Nevada do north of Rio. Ha. Okay, so like yeah so so the one the winner JJ Savoie, which do you know where that is in France? Isn't
Molly 25:23
it over toward Germany? It's it's eastern France, isn't it? Sure.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:27
I'll buy that.
Molly 25:28
I don't know. Let's look it up so that I don't sound like an idiot. But I'm pretty darn sure that it is like in the Alps over there by Germany. Could be like, Oh, it Savoie.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:41
Oh, you're so right. You've never been more right. Oh, great. It's like right on the border of? Well, it's on the border of like Italy and Switzerland. Oh, okay. Okay, so so so Italy, Eastern for not technically Germany. So it's like, like, where Switzerland kind of pokes its way into France. It's south of that, whereas Germany would be like north
Molly 26:01
of that. Got it. Okay. Okay. But yeah, but it's still probably going to be kind of an an alpine region, I'm guessing.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:07
Yeah, it's an alpine region. I'm gonna base that on just looking at Google Maps a minute ago. Okay.
Molly 26:12
All right. So this one is a Savoie Rosae. And you said it's made from Pinot Noir and Cabernet. Great.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:19
Yeah. And I had fun just like going in and saying to the wine store and being like, Yeah, I'm looking for like a direct press. Rosae. Like could be Provolone Sol could be it could be something else. What do you have? That's interesting. And it's like, how about this? This one from south? Why's it perfect? $15? I'll take it.
Molly 26:36
And do you think that people ever go into a wine store and say I would like a, what is it called, like, quickmask limited masturbation? Rose, I'm going to I think most of us say like, I'd like a really like pale rosacea, or like a really light Rosae versus I'd like a really berry II, very fruity Rosae, which I tend to think of as being a sort of darker, deeper color.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:03
Right. So when do you drink Rosae? Me in the summer?
Molly 27:07
Time? I do think there's something about it. That lends itself nicely to summer. But I don't drink it only in the summer. Do
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:15
you think that you would be able to pick a Rosae? Out? Like from a white wine in a blind tasting? I don't have there's no end chance that I would be able to? Oh, I
Molly 27:26
think it depends on the grape. Yeah, of course. I think it depends on the grape. Like I think I could definitely distinguish, you know, a Slovenia Blanc from this wine. Sure. But that has a really distinctive flavor that I only remember. I think of it as being a bit grapefruity
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:42
grapefruity? I don't know.
Molly 27:45
I don't know. The truth is, is I think I'm as susceptible to trends as anybody. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:51
me too. I wasn't saying I was above that. Well, no, I mean, we're better than the Chardonnay people. But other than that,
Molly 27:57
I think I have sort of replaced white wine with Rosae in terms of my own personal buying habits. And so we there's
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:04
something about it. That's just fun, right? It
Unknown Speaker 28:06
is fun. It's pretty Yeah.
Molly 28:09
And you know, if I were serving, I don't know some sort of fish or a shrimp pasta or something. I could buy a lovely white wine. But I would tend to buy rosacea, I think because it's just the direction we look these days. Yeah, no, I think you're right. And how do you feel about the super trendy beverages that are based on Rosae? Like frozen? Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:32
I have had frozen I have not Yeah, it was it's great. Like they have it a dino. Yeah, that may even be where I had it. Okay, I know. I know. I had it like because because prosaic is like made in like one of those. What do you call those machines that like, like
Molly 28:45
a slush? Like a slushy little rotating Hopper thing?
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:49
Yeah. Like I was just at at a kid's birthday party at like, uh, you know, bouncing you know, but they had they had like the same machine, but it was like slush puppies, and I just been researching for this episode as I was I was like, is that a frizzy machine at the kid's birthday party? So froze a slushy rose a blended with strawberries and lemon juice. Typically, the invention of the drink is credited to bar preemie in New York in the spring of 2016. Okay, and then in summer 2016. Editor Rick Martinez of Bon Appetit posted the recipe on Bon appetit.com. And it was a huge breakout hit and froze. He started showing up everywhere. You know,
Molly 29:29
I feel like in my in my pre child years, I did not spend nearly enough time just like wasting time by bodies of water, drinking alcohol,
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:41
right. What was the thing you said earlier like wasting the day away with Chardonnay?
Molly 29:45
No, a date day in the sun a day in the sun. I was talking more about popularity right there. But yeah, so I think that frozen a I mean, if somebody rolled up like an ice cream truck, for instance, at the Seward Park Beach, where are in the summer great place to go with your kids I
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:03
and like said Hey kids, I got something new for you here
Molly 30:07
no no but I would absolutely get in on that stuff or like you know like Madrona beach or something. Yep. Madison Park beach any local set up froze a stand and that is where I want to be but unfortunately
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:24
there are no issues with with liquor laws whatsoever at
Molly 30:27
all. I don't know that I would want it though. If I were going out to a bar at night.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:34
What if it's like a hot sultry night?
Molly 30:36
Okay, okay. Or like someplace that had like big front windows that open? Yep. And I was like a little sweaty Yeah. So good right now.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:46
I've mentioned many times on the show right that my all time favorite cake rack from the from the blog slash book cake racks was the kid's birthday celebration cake that said welcome little sweaty I say welcome little sweaty all the time it's yes the greatest right
Unknown Speaker 31:10
good
Unknown Speaker 31:13
okay
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:15
WETD I II which is even better little sweetie good say so froze a it's a little sweetie. Have a drink? It's great if you're a little sweaty. Like I wouldn't try make it at home but I've never like made a home slosh of any kind. I don't think I haven't either. I know I know. You can like make a Grenada by like putting a tray in your freezer and scraping it occasionally.
Molly 31:45
Just never never stayed around the freezer. No.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:49
Like it seemed like I want to be where the people are. On land Yeah. What are these? Feet?
Molly 32:01
Okay, back you. I have some spilled mail.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:04
Hey, thank God. Oh, one last thing. Why would the show Laurie said You know, it would be fun for this episode. You should you should do like a real fake quiz based on those like Etsy women's wine shirts. Oh, that sounds very looked at it. Like this is so depressing. This is really disordered. So we're not doing
Molly 32:23
that. Okay, good. Good. Okay. All right. We've got some spilled mail
hit me. Today's mail comes from listener Daniel, who I think we've heard from we are okay. Listener. Daniel says salutations flavor Argonauts. I was listening to your recent episode about menus and your discussion about comparing sizes made me think of this YouTube video by Adam Raghu sia Raghu Lucia. The video is called Why fancy restaurant menus shrink. Crazy that you both talk about the Cheesecake Factory.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:01
I mean, that is sort of like the quintessential example of a huge menu.
Molly 33:05
Yeah, it also sparked a question in my mind much in the same way in 1987. Honda with a loose tailpipe dragging on the interstate asphalt spews sparks sporadically. Wow spews sparks sporadically. What are your thoughts on quote, secret menus? As a customer I can't think of many things more fun than ordering food that I'm not supposed to know about. That's right I party. But as a server who had to field orders from a secret menu that didn't actually exist, I think they're annoying if apocryphal love the show. From the lions den Daniel. Yes. Okay. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:39
Lister Daniel, we know has a way with words. This is a good question. How do I feel about secret menus? So like, obviously, the first thing that comes to mind is like the secret menu at in and out. I think it's fine as long as like everybody knows about it. And I think in the case of in and out like they even put it on their website. Like I don't want to feel like I'm actually being left out of something. But if it's like you know, you know, nudge nudge every literally everybody knows this point have a secret menu. It's just kind of a little a little bit a little bit of fun. Like, why is that fun? I
Molly 34:11
don't know many other ways. That's
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:13
the most fun. That's the most fun thing.
Molly 34:15
I have never, never really tried out using a secret menu. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:22
don't. I can't think of like, I don't think I've done it anywhere other than in and out.
Molly 34:26
I think I've only been to in and out a couple times. And I'm that boring person who's like, I want a cheese burger.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:31
No, that's not boring. Is that how you order it though?
Molly 34:36
That's how I ordered.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:37
I think like, I don't think this is a secret menu, but like, I think they'll still make the marinara pizza for you at Deland. See if you ask for it, even though it's not on the menu anymore. This is not on the menu anymore. This information may be out of date like no, I
Molly 34:51
have no idea. I have no idea because I just tend to order the same pizzas over and over. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, no, there's a lot of stuff that they'll put on it. Pizza delay and see if you ask them for it. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:01
no, it does seem like it would be annoying like if you worked in a restaurant and people kept coming in and ordering things that don't exist and you have no idea what they mean. Yeah, my old college friend Ryan, who I was in my first band with he and his friends at Arizona State used to like prank the poor person working at the at the drive thru at some some drive thru fast food place by by ordering dos debates, which I like just like mumbling a thing that didn't exist so that the person would have to say what? Sorry, sorry, Ryan. I'm sure he doesn't do this anymore. Now that he's like 48 years old, but maybe what if he does? What a jerk
Molly 35:47
Okay, thank you listener Daniel. Matthew. I hear you have a now but wow, I do
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:00
once again, it's a podcast. It's so first of all, I've almost done with the curling podcast, which I mentioned last time I had it now but wow. And I had to text my wife the show Laurie this morning to let her know, the elite curling world is descending into chaos. Oh no. But then they kind of wrapped it up by the end of the episode. So it let's send it back out of chaos. We're concerned I am. But this time. It's another new podcast called primer that's on the maximum fun network and it's a music podcast hosted by Kristian Duenas and use K kitazawa on each season of the show. They're playing to explore kind of an underappreciated music genre. And the first season is about Japanese city pop, which is something that I've wanted to understand for a long time. And like you know, I hear it I like it. I don't really know anything about it. And so I was like This podcast was designed for me, and the first episode is about Miki matzah Bata song stay with me, which is an incredible song that I was super excited to hear some real experts dig into Matthew, how
Molly 37:00
do you find podcasts?
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:02
I usually find podcasts because they are mentioned on other podcasts almost 100% of the time. Oh, wow. Okay. Or wife the show Lori tells me about them.
Molly 37:10
Okay, maybe we should have her on the show sometime. And she can tell us about podcast. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:14
yeah, we can have a segment called a podcast you should listen to instead of this one. Yes, his wife of the show. In fact, Watson said this morning like I taped my other podcast hidden jukebox which I co host with my brother Jay. She said that? No. This is setup for what she's okay. She's Yeah, she's like, do you remember that? You have another podcast with your brother. I'm like who? But I left the studio set up because Because today's Memorial Day that we're recording this and like, wow, get to spoil the story as so much unnecessary. Anyway, when she saw that the studio is silted up. She's like, we should go over there and record our own podcast. Oh, man, what would it be? Oh, so for a while I've wanted I've wanted to do a podcast yet with with Watson all about that would be a rewatch of the show. aliased with Jennifer Garner, and Bradley Cooper. So you would just go episode by episode by episode appreciating. Wow. Yeah, so this could be a big hit. A big hit fan? Yeah, I don't think we're actually going to do it because it would be a lot a lot, a lot of work to launch a podcast. But if we did, this is the joke. And it will only make sense if you if you watch the show alias. I'm not gonna bother to explain it. But it would be called credit Joe fiends guide to the world capital markets.
Molly 38:31
All right, producer is Abby, sir. Catella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:33
Molly's got a newsletter called I've got a feeling that is available only at Molly weisenberg.substack.com.
Molly 38:40
Matthew makes music with his band early to the airport. They released an EP I think, what in early summer was it? Let's say probably mid summer. Okay. Again, we're straddling the future and we are straddling the future. And anyway, you can find early to the airports music anywhere you listen to
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:59
music. Yep. And you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. You can
Molly 39:03
chat with other spilled milk listeners at everything spilled. milk.reddit.com Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:07
where someone recently posted a cartoon. It was pretty amazing. Yeah. So until next time, thank you for listening to spilled milk.
Molly 39:16
The show that's pressed directly into your ears once a week.
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:21
Once a week we are pressed directly. I talked over the
Molly 39:25
great I'm Molly wise.
Unknown Speaker 39:36
Lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp lamp.
Molly 39:38
I don't hear you in my headphones.
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:43
I think I might be torn down, torn down or gotten torn down.
Unknown Speaker 39:47
Oh no.
Molly 39:48
Are you are you a building or a poster? Or?
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:52
I'm a building and a poster. Okay,
Molly 39:54
what's the beginning of a talking head song?
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:57
Yeah, more song are you are more songs about buildings. and posters okay oh wait no now what am I doing here
Transcribed by https://otter.ai