Today Host and Listener Matthew goes deep into the wonderful world of udon while attempting to court the Kennedys and explain the concept of compound to Host Molly. Our hosts discuss many, but not all, variations of this low hydration noodle while avoiding lawsuits and welcoming dipping sauces. Finally, they celebrate an unjustly ignored snack.
Hetty McKinnon’s “Life-Changing Udon with Soft-Boiled Egg, Hot Soy, and Black Pepper
Molly's Whatcha Snackin? Bellewood Farms Honey Roasted Peanut Butter
Matthew's Now but Wow: We Are Lady Parts Season 2!!!
Molly 0:00
Hi. I'm Matthew and I'm Molly.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:05
And this is Spilled Milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't happen.
Molly 0:10
Today we are talking about Udaan
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:13
I'm grinning because we just ate some Yaki udanta. It was really good. I've been excited for this episode, even though it's gonna be information heavy. Yeah,
Molly 0:21
I would say that this episode. I don't know if it was like suggested by listener Matthew, but it was sort of pushed ahead down the pipeline by listener. Matt. That's
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:29
right. I love host Matthew. Well, no. And also a listener. Like I started out as a listener, and then became hosts somewhere before the episode wide. So I don't know what I was listening to you, I guess. In retrospect, it was Morning Edition. Yeah. So just
Molly 0:49
Morning Edition, Mordor
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:51
edition. Like it's it's the NPR show that they listen to in Middle Earth. Is that what they call it?
Molly 0:58
But that but in like sour Ron's, you know, layer
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:03
is good. Sounds compound. Yeah. They've got. Yeah, they have. They're like CNN. That's, like, CRTs. You
Molly 1:11
know, right. So I first heard the concept of compound like when listening to some sort of like, tabloid news show talking about Ted Kennedy. Oh, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:20
think it was eight Saddam Hussein. No,
Molly 1:23
no, this was before. Okay. But so whenever I think of the word compound, in terms of like, a housing or up like a place, I think of Ted Kennedy, um, so I'm just thinking of like, you know, what's the show that they listened to in Ted Kennedy's in the Kennedy compound? Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:41
that's a good question. Maybe our show? Who knows? Okay, if you're a you're a Kennedy and you want to sign up for a membership at the $1.6 million a month level, give us a call. I'll give you my personal number. All right, so should we start with some memory lane?
Molly 2:00
Yeah, so I think you should take the lead on this memory lane because I think it's actually with you that I really had moved on for the first time and realized like, this is Udaan Yeah, okay, you know,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:11
so first of all, we made JACC you'd on once on the show before it was on the mystery lunch episode. I
Molly 2:17
remember that episode but not the yaki we should look up
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:20
like what number episode that was because I feel like it might have been like episode 12 or something.
Molly 2:25
I think that was the one where you talked about tackling a ham. Yeah, cuz there was
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:29
a we had a ham in the fridge and that became part of it. But then the the Yaak eudon ended up very salty because because we put a bunch of ham in Episode 14. Oh, look at that. Wow. Well, we're on IMDb. We are. It says it says the first link here is to IMDb spilled milk mystery lunch, Episode 14. Wow, cool are we said how many movie stars? I think we are. There's no There's no, there's no cast listed. So I don't know if we were if we were on that episode and it says season unknown. Oh two. But we are on IMDb. So we've made it. Yep. Okay. You hear that? The Kennedys? The Kennedys. Okay, and, and then you and I took our first trip together to Japan in when was that October of 2017. October of 2017. And we went at least once maybe a couple times to Hana monitored on which is one of the two big Udaan chains in Japan. The other one is mattagami samen, which is lately started to become popular in the US has been opening I think I think there might even be one opening in Seattle or has opened like on the east side maybe Wow. We got to get get on that. Yeah, to tackle it like cam Yeah. So we went to we went to this food on chain and like we'll talk quite a bit about food on chain restaurants in Japan, but you really enjoyed it and
Molly 3:50
I loved it. I truly loved it. It's amazingly
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:53
inexpensive. You get your your bowl of noodles, and then you choose like some temporary pieces to go with it.
Molly 4:00
Yeah, and they've got this sort of like basic, like dashi broth type thing, but it's like just delicious, delicious, perfectly balanced. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:09
had I had come across one tomato Dawn because in 2012 When I went with my family for our like, first summer trip to Japan, it was one of the chains in our neighborhood. And so we tried it, and they had this dish that I don't think they've ever put on the menu again. That was my favorite thing of the summer, which was the spicy sudachi Udaan it was like served with cold broth, and I think grated daikon, roasted green chilies and a sudachi like a little citrus fruit to squeeze on it. It was so good. And like the thing I wanted when it was hot out which it was every day. That sounds incredible. So I've made a version of that at home and I think I think there's a recipe in pretty good number one. My Oh, I've heard of the only recipe in the book.
Molly 4:53
Oh god, I've got to go back and look at my copy. Yeah, wow. Okay, can we start with talking about this as a word
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:00
I mean, not that you're What's the word on the street?
Molly 5:04
Exactly. Okay
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:04
and does Mr. entomology know Mr. Etymology knows like enough to get in trouble when it comes to this word because so the the etymology of the word is basically unknown like it. Some linguists say that it is related to a Middle Chinese word meeting one time, and you can hear that Udaan sounds kind of like wanton. And so maybe those are related other linguists say no, we don't think so. That's about the best you can do, I think okay, but one thing I wanted to point out for any listeners who who are of Japanese descent or speak Japanese is we're going to be pronouncing this word quite differently than it is pronounced in Japanese.
Molly 5:44
Oh, how's that pronounced? So
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:45
in Japanese, I'm gonna try and get it right. It's who don't. So there is like, you're just like a rising tone from the first to second syllable and the end is sort of an N sound. Okay? So similarly to so this become like a word in English. I think that it's pronounced differently. So we're gonna say like, Udaan. That's correct. In the same way that like, there is a word caught Okay. In Japanese. That is that is a popular singing entertainment that we say karaoke in English. And both of these words if you if you say it to a Japanese person in Japan with the English pronunciation, they will not know what you mean. Or it'll take the moment to be like, Oh, you mean this thing that we call Udaan? In Japanese? Okay,
Molly 6:24
so can I just take a stab at defining take a stab? Okay. So this is a thick noodle. It is square in cross section. And I believe it is made from wheat. Yep. As opposed to rice or buckwheat?
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:40
Yep, exactly.
Molly 6:41
Okay. Did I did I get it right?
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:44
It's not always square in cross section. But usually, okay. Yeah. Okay, what you're imagining and what we just ate is Sanuki udon, which is the most popular style it is from the island of Shikoku. And it is the big, the big thick one that's like a quarter inch square and cross section. That's a big chewy noodle. Okay. And that's become the most popular style throughout Japan, and definitely the most popular style throughout the world. It's usually served in broth, but there are lots of variations and we're going to talk about many but far from all of them, or this episode would be days long. Great. Let's go. Okay. I've researched as much Udaan history as I could, which is, I think anytime we're talking about noodles, it's going to be like, Well, it definitely goes back to China. And that's, that's kind of as much as we figured out okay, so it's an East Asian noodle. China was definitely involved. But Udaan in its modern form was eaten in Japan by the early Edo period. So the Edo period started in 1603. Okay, for quite a while. Yeah, there is like the conventional wisdom in Japan is that like historically Udaan is the noodle of con Sai, which like Western Han Shu and soba is the noodle of like Tokyo and Eastern Honshu. This is a huge oversimplification and not really true. So there are some like regional differences in how it's eaten now, but it's not like like, Udaan is older than soba and so like people, people in Tokyo were eating Udaan before they were eating soba. Okay,
Molly 8:11
I just have to say like, anytime we talk about stuff like this, noodles or anything else, I am just constantly reminded how incredibly young our country is. Yeah, but this Yeah, it's true. Anyway, I know. That's a stupid statement. No, no,
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:28
it's true. But also, like, at the same time, like some things that seem like they must be old and traditional. turned out not to be like, I was realizing as I was researching this episode, that like, we talked about this before, I'm sure that like ramen, like our idea of like, what ramen is, and like ramen restaurants in Japan is really a phenomenon that goes back to the 1990s.
Molly 8:50
Right as as you and I have both read in some book that we read a long time. Yeah, we for sure did. Yeah. About about like, basically the creation of instant ramen. Right? And well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:00
we'll talk about like, like Udaan is like a trendy food like in a little bit. Okay, so all wheat based foods in Japan got way more popular after World War Two due to American food support. So okay, so we said enormous amounts of wheat and wheat flour mostly from the state of Oregon to Japan after World War Two. As a result, ramen got more popular Hudong got more popular Okonomiyaki takoyaki show coupon became like a daily thing around you know, in the 1950s because of American flour coming in. We don't send flour to Japan anymore. Now most Udaan and most flour foods in Japan are made from flour imported from Australia and domestic Japanese production.
Molly 9:42
Okay, so this particular type of Udaan Okay, can we drill down on this? You know, most ubiquitous type can
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:49
we drill? Yes, we can. Okay, have you ever watched Bob the Builder? I have not okay. I feel like I was kind of like before your kids time and maybe like a little after mine. But I But like, I go around sometimes saying, can we build it? Yes, we can. Even though I've only seen like three episodes of Bob the builder that was his catchphrase, okay. Okay, so new queued on is. It's the most popular style of Udaan in Japan and worldwide. It's what they serve at Hamamatsu dawn. It's what they serve at the other big wood on chain. It's the big, big, thick, chewy noodle. It is from Kagawa Prefecture, which is a in a region formerly known as Suzuki province, hence the name yes, on the island of Shikoku, which is the small list of Japan's four main islands. Okay, so So cacao Prefecture is kind of synonymous with Udaan in Japan now and what are the many great things about visiting Japan is that if there's a food you're you like, there is probably a whole city or region that is obsessed with that food and you can go there. I have not been to Chicago or to Kagawa Prefecture prefecture but as I was researching this episode, I'm like, I want to prioritize this like out of not too distant future trip to Japan because it sounds pretty awesome. So Nokia Dawn is beloved for its Koshi texture. According to Wikipedia, quote, food processing research researcher he does Oh Miki, professor emeritus at Kagawa University to find Koshi as a state of having both elasticity and stickiness Oh, he analyzes that when wheat flour is needed with water and salt the elastic glutenin and sticky Gliadin proteins in the wheat flour become entangled to form a gluten mesh structure which creates the chewy texture while strong chewy texture is required for snooker used on many people in rienne regions in concert and Kyushu prefer noodles that are not as chewy. And I have noticed this really Yeah. So there there are parts of Japan like Osaka in particular but also like Fukuoka and Kyushu where I have had Udaan that was frankly, way beyond al dente day.
Molly 11:47
So would you say it was mushy? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:49
would say it was mushy and I think that was not like considered a defect that is just how people prefer it their overall that texture is not for me or at least I haven't come to appreciate it yet.
Molly 12:01
Okay. Okay. That's really interesting, isn't it? And so is it that it is like it has a different is it needed less? Yeah, good
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:11
question.
Molly 12:12
Yeah. Different amount of gluten in this in the flowers there.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:15
I bet the flour used is different. The the kneading is different and it's cook longer could be my guest but I'm not sure and Kagawa Prefecture has sometimes promoted itself as ood own can can is prefecture in Japanese, and the capital of Takamatsu in particular has dozens, maybe hundreds of food on restaurants. And here's here's the amazing statistic that I was able to find on the on the think Japan National Tourism Organization site in Kagawa Prefecture, which is a small prefecture it's much smaller than King County, the county where we live and produce spilled milk. Okay, a population smaller than Seattle, there are over 700 Sanuki eudon restaurants. Wow.
Molly 12:54
Okay. All right. They've really leaned leaned in as Sheryl Sandberg to
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:00
exactly that Sanuki would be worse they were inspired by that book. Of course, also currently, Wikipedia several Udaan restaurants can be seen in a folding screen painting from the Genroku period which is like the turn of the like end of the 17th beginning of the 18th century, what would
Molly 13:17
be the equivalent of this in like American hidden history like it was trying to think of you know, okay, we didn't really do the folding screens. Oh, you're
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:26
wondering like what what form would that with the painting being like, I'm gonna say black velvet and
Molly 13:30
also, we clearly did not probably do that good on restaurants around like
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:37
I was here was the first McDonald we talked about the first taco bell that's that's kind of the same thing. That's fine. There's a lot of those
Molly 13:44
it would this have just been like a boring like oil painting. And in it would have been, you know what, you know what the equivalent the American equivalent of Udaan restaurants on a folding screen painting told me it is like cows grazing in a field in an old oil painting. Right? And that's the American equivalent. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:02
because back then Americans would like to just eat directly officer cows.
Molly 14:05
That's right. No nose to tail. That's what it's called. But snooker
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:08
you don't didn't become like a nationwide like nation of Japan, why'd marketing push until the 1960s. And so I feel like whenever whenever it seems like everyone is eating a traditional food there is often it like especially in a developed country, there's often like a marketing effort behind that, that like people have forgotten about the marketing effort, but it was successful and the food is still around because it's good. And so like, it seems like I was thinking about like, what what is what are the differences and similarities between Udaan and ramen which are which are both very popular, but ramen had it's like boom much more recently and much and much bigger. And so like, you they they're you know, sometimes you can find like a YouTube video of like, you've got to try this particular route on restaurant in in Tokyo, but like, for the most part, like people don't line up at famous food on places in Japan. It doesn't seem like
Molly 14:58
I have a question. Yeah. Okay. So Both Udaan and ramen are wheat noodle. Yeah, what is so Udaan I think of as being a very white colored noodle, whereas ramen is kind of a more creamy even yellowish noodle.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:12
Okay, so I don't know like the chemical processes involved with this but I know that Raman has the color and texture does because of added constancy which is an alkaline mineral solution. Okay, so like, you know, you can get kind of the same effect if you add baking soda and particularly like Harold McGee had to think about like put baking soda in the oven and bake it and then you can work at it make homemade ramen with it with and works.
Molly 15:37
Have you done it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:38
No. Cut I've seen I've seen a video so so yeah, so like adding some some like alkaline compound to the flower makes noodles with that particular like very springy, like, like bitey ramen texture and makes them yellow. Okay. Yep.
Molly 15:54
And can I return to one one thing we tried to run? So we talked about the texture word Koshi. So it is the state of having both elasticity and stickiness. Yeah. So you talked a little bit about sort of regional preferences in terms of elasticity. Where does the stickiness come from? Just what happens when you've got like wheat and water?
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:15
Yeah, so Okay, that's a good question. So it's what happens what happens when you got wheat and water, but it's also it's the thickness, and it's the fact that it's, it's like a very low hydration dough. Oh, so like, that makes it that makes it like tougher and chewier. Okay, and so like, if I didn't put this in the agenda, but like, if you make Udaan at home, like and I've done this, you wrote about Yeah, like you, you take the dough and the dough is really stiff, and you put it in it like a Ziploc bag and then you stomp on it. Hmm. Because it's too like if you try and eat it by hand, your arm will fall off. And okay,
Molly 16:52
okay, that Wow. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:54
like if you go to like an on chain restaurant, they are. Yeah, and
Molly 16:58
then I'm just imagining the little audio snippet of what I just said
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:02
of one of like, okay, okay. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna just like carry that around just like whenever I say anything. Yeah, just like yeah, you nailed it. Yeah, man. If you go to like a nude on restaurant, like a chain restaurant or non chain restaurant, they will have an Udaan kneading machine that like mixes mixes the dough like in a hopper and then like, sends it through Have you ever seen like a like a sheet or that they used to make I
Molly 17:27
was I was gonna ask you if it was if it was more like a sheeter or like a like a taffy pulling machine.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:32
It's more like a sheet or so it like rolls the dough thin with like, a lot of pressure like on with a bigger like roller. It's like it's a classic like machine you do not want to get your hand in.
Molly 17:44
Okay. Right. I'm imagining it right now.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:48
So yeah, so in the in the 60s like Suzuki was was a successful marketing push for like the Kagawa Prefecture Tourism Board. And in 2016, a survey found that 91% of people in Kagawa Prefecture eat Udaan at least once a week, and also found that 6% Never eat it.
Molly 18:06
Those people are just a really cranky one. Yeah, the contrarians shall we say, kick
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:13
out Prefecture is also known for self serve food on restaurants. And you can you can watch I was like what does that mean? Exactly. So I found it on YouTube. So you tell him like how many bowls of noodles you want. And they like give them to you and you like put them in a little strainer and lower it into a boiling water bath that's just behind the counter and like you decide how long you want to cook it and then you drain it you like add the broth from a dispenser you put on the toppings you get your temporary pieces
Molly 18:42
that could lead to so much like somebody losses so many lawsuits like a lot of suing. Yeah, for sure.
So what about the tempura part of this? Where did tempura come to be associated with Udaan?
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:03
I'm really not sure like what the history of it is, but it is in what's the word not inescapable, indivisible, in defense? No, it's totally defensible. What's the word I'm looking for? That they cannot be separated in the popular imagination on crosstable their uncrossable inextricably inextricable I think that's the word I was inextricably linked. There we go in the in the imagination and in reality, because like pretty much any Hunan place you go to whether it's local or a chain, after you get your bowl of noodles, there will be an array of temporary pieces that you can choose from. There's going to be like tempura fish cake there's going to be Cabo chess squash, there's going to be sweet potato shrimp. Yeah, khaki Oggie which is like a like kind of a big hockey puck of various vegetables and sometimes seaweed, like fried together. They're so good. But
Molly 20:00
they're so good it's like like shredded vegetables fried together like in a nest yeah
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:04
hockey puck was the wrong word because that implies that it's dense the toilets light. I'm laughing sometimes it'd be like a piece of chicken that's temporary. And you can take these things and eat them on the side or throw them into the broth people.
Molly 20:15
What do you do?
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:16
I will usually do I mostly eat them on the side, but some sometimes I will like throw one piece in and or dip.
Molly 20:24
I like to dip. Yeah. And so So yeah, we don't know when that that became the way of doing it. We don't know why. But we'd like if
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:31
someone knows, like Get in Touch Contact, it's filled up podcast.com. Usually there will also a bowl of 10 casue, which are like the little flaky bits skimmed off from the tempura fryer and like, this is a really good addition to a bowl of Fudan.
Molly 20:45
So this stuff is really cheap. I mean, I seem to recall when you and I first went to hot tomato Udaan in 2017 I feel like my lunch was like $2 It was probably about $2. Yeah, and that was the small Udaan with some tempura, probably two maybe three pieces of tempura. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:03
so I think they had not yet raised the price of like the basic caca eudon bowl which is just noodles and broth. I remember for sure when December and when we went as a family in 2012 for the first time and went to Hana motherhood on a lot December and I think Laurie also would always get the small Kakuda which I think the same thing you got. It was 105 yen which that's not even the Darling current current exchange rate I think is like 67 cents back then the exchange rate was was more favorable to the yen to was like $1.50 But yeah, wow. Okay, they have now raised the price I don't want everyone to get excited and like run over there thinking you're gonna get your your bowl of soup for 67 cents it is now 330 yen. So that's $2.11 sets, but that is a big hike in price. It is a big hike in price. It was it was an absurd loss leader at the time, and like I knew it couldn't possibly last. Okay, but also now it's $2. Boo.
Molly 22:02
Yeah, okay. And is this typical of Udaan restaurants? I mean, both chain and local are they always like quite inexpensive notably inexpensive?
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:12
It really seems like it like much more so than ramen because it's much like simpler food than ramen. You're not You're not like making a broth based on like, you know, you get like, pork bones and simmer them for three days. And then you you know, you reduce your soy sauce. It's like it's, you know, you make a good Dashi, and you add a little soy sauce and mirin and that's pretty much it, you put some inexpensive toppings on it. And
Molly 22:35
so is there much variation in what you'll find in the Nunan shop.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:39
Okay, let's start with like, some of the basic dishes that you'll find in pretty much any sinew queued on shop, which is like most of them, okay, and like that may that may not have been quite a correct statement because you'll find the same kinds of things that like a you know, place in Osaka that does like the soft noodles. It's not really a Sunu queued on restaurant, but the format is basically the same. So you'll find coq au Dawn and boot cockade on khaki you Don is the one that we that we were talking about that we would usually get that it's a bowl of like in pretty light soup. So it's it's dashi that's based on like, you know, fish flakes and kombu and then has a little bit of soy sauce and Mira and added the bouquets, like, splashed is what the word means. We're not going to talk about it. No, I
Molly 23:23
know what I
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:26
that is that is like a thicker more flavorful broth that is more more like a sauce that you put a smaller amount on.
Molly 23:33
Is it thicker then? like tonkatsu ramen broth?
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:38
It's, I mean, it's a different kind of thing like, like texture wise. No, not really, because it doesn't have all that like, you know, pork gelatin in it. It's not it's not like thickened, it's just it's more intense because it's got a higher ratio of soy sauce and mirin. Little thickness from the sugar in the urine. Okay, okay, the most common toppings like no matter which one you're Which dish you're ordering are going to be scallions, grated ginger and graded daikon. Okay, kids love Kitsune Aidan that's this is considered like the one that kids order in Japan to Namie so Kitsune is a fox. The way I've heard this explain is either so KitchenAid on is is topped with piece a big piece or a couple pieces of fried tofu and it's not it's not like crispy fried. It's like it's been fried and then like simmered in, like sweet sauce after frying. So it's more kind of like, like a spongy texture that I think of as being a little like a morel texture that sort of like spits the sauce back at you. Yes, I know what you mean. So Kitsune is a fox and I've heard it that the explanation either Is that like the fried tofu is the color of a fox or that foxes in myth in your fables like to eat fried tofu? Story, right? Okay. Okay,
Molly 24:54
so this is a this is a typical thing that a kid would order. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:57
but anybody that just Typically in fact what December we'll order at a new dawn place and there'll be dipping Udaan which which is something I love making it home and there's two two styles that are very popular Xatu Dawn is probably the more popular where it's usually cold noodles served on a like a wicker wicker basket, kind of a flat basket or a plate and you dip it in kind of kind of like the bookcase saucer like a thick not not thick in terms of viscous but like you know, very dense and flavored salty and flavorful soy sauce and dashi based dipping sauce that's going to have probably some pork in there and a lot of scallions that sort of thing then come argued on is served in in like hot water, often in a communal vessel. So like everyone gets the kamagra you down and you pull out these really hot noodles and dip them in a dipping sauce. That's usually the that's what is usually described as like a sukiyaki sauce, which really just means like it's a sweet fix. So I sauce based sauce. Okay, curry Huon is very popular and is especially associated with Osaka. I was so pleased that I was over at the house of friend of the show Becky Sal again and I was asked Do you remember that when this happened when when you and I went to Osaka because Becky and I went to Osaka a few years ago. And we went to a Korean restaurant. And I ordered the small and Becky ordered the regular and mine was like a normal amount of food that I could eat and Becky's was like the size of a bathtub.
Molly 26:26
And it's so the curry. You said curry broth. Is it thinner than like the saucy part of Japanese curry? Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:34
that's a good question. So I would say a little bit but not much. Okay. So it's a pretty hearty food. Yeah, yeah, it's
Molly 26:42
good. It seems like really good winter. Yeah. And it's super easy
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:45
to make at home because you buy your frozen food on noodles and you buy a curry bracket you like whip up a little curry sauce and yeah, in Fukuoka and southern Japan and Kyushu. Gobo 10. Udaan is the local specialty and I've had it it's very good. It's it's Udaan and broth with tempura fried burdock root on top. Okay, Yaki eudon, which we had today, I learned I think I only learned this like while researching for this is is credited as like a specialty of kita Kyushu, which is near Fukuoka in Kyushu. But it's popular everywhere, and it is clearly a variation on yaki soba because it's basically it's the same, the same kind of approach Yakisoba tends to be made with like Bulldog sauce, like like tonkatsu sauce that's been that's been like reduced. Yaki eudon tends to be made with like a soy sauce based thing, but like it's the same idea. So it's the noodles that are like stir fried in a pan or on a flat top with usually some pork and vegetables and then topped with fish flakes and often eaten with shichimi togarashi and pickled ginger and scallions real good stuff. Question.
Molly 27:50
So the the version that you made today was from just one cookbook, and I see that there are two different options for the seasoning one is yeah, like dashi soy sauce sakeI and Marin, which is what I did today and then the other is the reduced Can you pronounce this form into
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:09
you so the dipping sauce for dipping your food on it's called men to you which meet men is noodle and to use is dip. They sell like, like a wide variety of like bottled men to you like for different types of noodles, like different brands different, like quality levels, different formulas, and so that it's a really popular convenience ingredient in Japan. I don't tend to have it on hand because I usually just mix it up myself, but like, I don't have anything against it certainly either.
Molly 28:39
But today you you made the dashi base. Yeah, and
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:43
I did use instant dashi powder so like dodgy powder, soy sauce sock a mirror
Molly 28:48
and if I don't, so I only have like dashi tea bags, I would need to get dashi powder.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:53
I mean, you could make some Well, no you I guess he would eat yet the powder would be to to dilute Yeah,
Molly 28:59
yeah, that's what I was thinking. Okay, okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:01
I mean, you could you could like toss the teabag in with with some with a little soy sauce sock a mirror and like a tiny bit of water. That'd be fine, but just get some dye.
Molly 29:11
Yeah, I'll just get your dashi powder.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:14
Apparently so. One one ingredient that I had sort of dismissed is dried food on which you can buy like in the noodle section in any Japanese grocery. And is like a really different noodle. It's not square and cross section. Usually it's like it's often kind of like thick it but but oval cross section. And it's good. It's a it's a tasty noodle, but like feels like a very different thing than Udaan to me, but when I was reading Okay, so I fell down a rabbit hole on this website called The Kokoda Yaki eudon Research Institute. Kokoda is a town in Kitakyushu. Apparently the classic Kitakyushu Yaki eudon is made with dried food on noodles and they say that this is this is how we use dried noodles. It's easier to get them browned and crispy. Okay, so, okay, okay,
Molly 30:01
since you're mentioning dried food on noodles, I want to specify that most of the time you and I when we use it on noodles are using frozen. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:09
right. Yeah. So like you'll find him like in the freezer section at the Japanese or Korean grocery. And they're they're sold in like big blocks. Like it's a thing that takes up quite a bit of space in your freezer. It's worth it. They're big chunks
Molly 30:23
and I usually buy I think Sherif Kiku brand or thing and it comes to like five blocks to a package. So would you ever buy the refrigerated food on noodles? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:36
don't really see the point. Like they don't cook any flavor. Maybe they cook like you know, a minute faster than the frozen and I don't think the texture is as good okay, having said that, I think the instant can be really good. And I have like a sample on here. Oh, okay, I had one of these for lunch yesterday. Not this exact same one, but I'm looking forward to having this one. So this is a J basket brand curry Huon. And when you get the Institute on what I imagined that they were going to be like dried noodles, or like fried like a fried noodle block like ramen. They are not check this out. Oh,
Molly 31:12
it's like a shelf stable package of noodles that are like soft and yeah, but
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:19
wow. So yesterday, I made like a like a dashi flavored one version of this yesterday. And it was really good. Like the, there was like a little liquid sauce base, and then you just add water and microwave it.
Molly 31:31
So this is I mean, this is essentially a fully cooked noodle here in a vacuum pack container.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:36
Right? And so I was like, Is the noodle going to be mushy? It wasn't like Mmm hmm. Pretty good. So yeah, recommend it.
Molly 31:42
And so that is we should say that that this was the kind of like a you'd find it on the ramen aisle and it comes in like a paper like single serving bowl. Yes thing. Yep.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:53
There has been a recent Udaan trend in Japan, I noticed carbonara Udaan which is exactly what it sounds like. And I'm sure it's good. Oh, I
Molly 32:03
bet that's fantastic. Yeah, I have made a recipe a few times from a friend of the show, Hedy MacKinnon. Oh, tell me about and this is from her book to Asia with love, and it is extremely like non traditional compared to the things that we've been talking about today. But she has you start with vegetable stock. I've used chicken as well. Just use like better than bouillon. Sure. So I saw a little bit of Marin, you warm that up, and you boil some Udaan put it in a bowl, pour that broth over it. And then you add like, sort of a nub of salted butter. Okay, and some scallions and a little drizzle of sesame oil and then a lot of black pepper. I don't
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:46
even think this now like if this was on the menu as like a special and hot tomato food on that wouldn't seem out of character. Yeah, yeah. With the butter and everything. Yeah, because like it would be like analogous to like a butter miso ramen, which is which is popular. Okay,
Molly 33:00
so this does tend to get salty fast. So I would say I noticed that we'll link to it in the show notes. If you Google it. It's called Life Changing Udaan with soft boiled egg hot soy and black pepper. And you will see that some recipes online called for salted butter and some call for unsalted the original calls for salted butter, but just know that it content toward the salty Oh, and I should say it also has like a six minute egg on top of it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:30
Oh yeah, that's a pot whipped. I think we didn't talk about like, like schema eudon Like Moon viewing Udaan This is popular in Japan that usually just has like a ride cracked into it.
Molly 33:40
Ah yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:41
but yeah, but yeah, but like, like a cold dude on with like an unknown Tama like Sofala on sand Tamago. Very good. Yeah.
Molly 33:49
Anyway, I love this recipe. And well Henry McKinnon is just great. Yeah. past guest Yeah, indeed. friend of the show. Even I think we can say I
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:58
think we can say friend of the show great. Like we have to, I think to call someone a friend of the show. We have to like pass them a note in class that says do you want to be my friend? Why? And yeah, exactly. Check. Yeah, check this box. I know not very much about we don't in Korea. I know it's popular. I know. It is often served with like fish cakes and chrysanthemum greens. Which is boom goo Guan, Korean, or Shinjuku and Japanese. Sounds really good. Like the Japanese styles of Udaan are also popular in Korea and the word is almost the same. Wow,
Molly 34:29
we have just we have really gone deep on UHD on here, Matthew, I left
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:34
so much stuff out. Like yeah, I was I was like that because I knew this was going to be one of these things where like, I look at the English language Wikipedia page. I'm like, okay, like, you know, this, this covers the basics that I switch over to the Japanese Wikipedia page as like 100 screens log. And then there's links to like, here's the Sanuki eudon page and here's the curry eudon page, like, like I want to I want to talk about all of it because I just want to eat all of it. Okay,
Molly 34:58
well, we'll link to the Just one cookbook. Yeah, cute on we will link to Hedy McKinnon's life changing Udaan maybe we'll find some other stuff to link to in the show notes. Probably yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:08
And if you haven't if yaki you don't sounds good to you and you've never made it, make it. It's real easy. It's not like you know how we always talked about like, you know, it's worth learning. We can make Bod Pod Thai, but it takes a lot of practice. Yaki you don't it's not like that. It'll be great. The first time you make it, I
Molly 35:22
have only made yaki soba. But I can say it is extremely easy and quickly became a, like, regular repertoire item.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:31
Yeah, that was a real satisfying lunch. So good. Do we have any segment
Molly 35:36
Matthew, we've got some spilled mail I would like to share with you
all right, so this one comes from listener Rachel. Hi host Matthew and Molly and Abby. Ever since I listened to your Girl Scout Cookie episode, I have been meaning to send you the attached Intel. It's from this year's ABC bakers cookie program guide. I was the cookie parent for my daughter's Daisy trip this year. It shows what percentage of each cookie to order for your cookie booth. So the answer is yes, people do buy tree foils. Just not as many as the Big Three Thin Mints caramel delights and peanut butter patties. Peanut butter, Pat AVPs. She
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:18
wrote Wow.
Molly 36:19
Anecdotally, I ordered cookies and roughly these percentages for our booth and I ultimately did not have enough Thin Mints or toast yeas, can I still can't get over the toast. Yes, yeah, we sold all our cookies but the last ones to go with a peanut butter patties listener RACHEL
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:35
So listener Rachel included she said said the Intel this is this is like the Samis dot here. It is a photocopy of a page of photocopy. It's a picture of a page from like the ABC Baker's like cookie troop guide. I don't know what to call it. But it has it has a list of percentages for how much based on average sales per cookie variety in the past. We recommend you order based on the below mixture. So like Thin Mints, 28% Caramel delight 18% Peanut Butter patties. 18% peanut butter sandwich 9% all the way down to gluten free 2% I'm wondering like, you know, do some troops look at that and be like, you know, screw this. Like, we know, we know that we're like a toast yeas area. Like we're going we're going on 2% Toast. Yeah,
Molly 37:20
hold on. Can we talk about toast yeas for a minute, because I don't understand what this name is referring to. Is this a play on word that you like
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:27
you like we sort of figured it out and then forgot again? Tau so
Molly 37:31
it's spelled toast? Hyphen y a y exclamation point?
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:36
I yeah, I feel like yeah, I have this memory of becoming unconfused. And now I'm confused.
Molly 37:43
Okay, maybe we'll get some more listener mail about it. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:47
I don't know. Whatever. Oh, yeah. So thanks. Thank you for the for the Intel listen original like any any other like trade secrets. You want to you want to pass to the show anonymously. We'll credit them to you. Yeah. And
Molly 37:57
we'll be your friend. Yes. Yes. Matthew. Have you been snacking anything?
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:02
Hey, watch your snacking. Gotta tell me what you snack in. Or I'll release the Kraken. So what you snack in just so lately, not we didn't decide to like go on like an investigative journey. But we've tried a couple of different boxed brownies recently and I one thumbs up and one thumbs down. So we usually get the Ghiradelli either dark chocolate or double chocolate I think. I'm not sure if I can tell the difference between those. They're both excellent. One that I was curious to try this because I saw it on the shelf was the Betty Crocker Reese's Peanut Butter brownies highly recommended really tasty they just like a brownie of basic box brownie but with peanut butter chips, okay, like I wouldn't even say that I think I like peanut butter chips like I certainly don't want to snack on them playing like I will happily do with chocolate chips. But they worked so well in these and then I saw I want to say was Epicurious did a round up of like the best box brownies in there tasting Trader Joe's came out on top and Ghiradelli was second and so I was like I got to try these trade Trader Joe's their cake brownies. Oh no and like no. If your cake brownie person I'm not yuck in your yum. But I am a fudgy brownie person. These didn't all get eaten. Like there were brownies sitting in our house. They were just like yeah, wow, that's shocking. Them the chocolate flavor was good, but it was not the texture I was looking for.
Molly 39:32
Okay, well Matthew, I've been snacking too and what I've been snack in is this is actually a product from nearby Linden, Washington. It is the Bellwood farms, honey roasted peanut butter. So what this is okay, so I should say that a new friend Her name is Minh Hi, I came over like a week ago and she shows up with an already opened jar of peanut butter, okay, as like a gift. And I was like, seriously and I was I was like, number one, were
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:01
there like finger marks in it? Well, but
Molly 40:03
you know, when you open peanut butter inevitably, especially if it's a brand that needs to be stirred or even stirred a little bit, there's going to be like oil dripping down and kind of stirring the label. So it was like that. It was like that. So I was like, Oh, great. And anyway, she was like, wait until you taste this. She had bought it at mainstay provision. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:22
was at your house yesterday and I was looking at this peanut butter jar. I can't believe you didn't insist that I saw.
Molly 40:28
So here's the deal. It is a crunchy peanut butter. And the nubs of peanut in it are very uniform. So you nubs the pinups. And there's also some potato starch in the peanut butter, which I think gives it its texture. Which is this wonderful, like chewy. No, it's like a crackly feeling. Oh, most. So it tastes like honey roasted peanuts. Like we used to eat on airplane course. And it's got this like uniform crunch that's coming from two sources. One from these peanuts themselves chopped up and the other I think from potato starch, it's giving it some sort of interesting lay. The texture is just incredible. The flavor is incredible. I would not want to put it on a peanut butter sandwich. Right. But eaten straight off the spoon. I mean, I think I've eaten like two thirds of the jar already straight off the spoon. Where do they like sell this at local stores in Seattle? I know you can buy it at mainstay provisions. I know you can mail order it. I bet you can get it at some other you know sort of specialty foods places, at least in the Seattle area and you can mail order it. I will
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:42
look for it at Central Co Op it is really Okay, so that's Bellwood farms, honey, roasted peanut butter. I feel like people this may be a ridiculous thing to say because maybe like everyone, you know talks about and snacks on this all the time. But I feel like people don't talk about honey roasted peanuts as much as they used to like no one point that was like a top tier snack. And like they're just as good as they ever were like, you can get them at any store. And they're great. It's interesting,
Molly 42:05
because, you know, like, I think when there was at least from my perception, when airlines started changing their snack offerings Yeah, that's true. Honey, roasted peanuts went away and regular peanuts eventually came back. But honey roasted never came back.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:22
Yeah, that's true. Maybe they just got like shoved aside by Biscoff. Yeah. Like Biscoff being a pig, right, honey, roasted peanuts.
Molly 42:32
Like how Biscoff has a little bit of like, the kind of mumble II voice Yeah. All right, Matthew, do you have an album? Wow,
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:43
I sure do.
One of my all time favorite TV shows we are lady parts is back with season two, which followed like three years after season one. So we thought like probably there wasn't going to be a season two. But there is it is a show about a all female all Muslim rock punk rock band based in London. It is so funny. The music is so delightful. And like it's the it's the kind of show that will make you laugh and make you cry on every episode because like the characters are just so real. And the stories feel so like true to life, despite being like very heightened. And it's just like my favorite kind of show. And I recommend watching it. It's on peacock. Oh, I don't have a peacock subscription. You should check if you have Xfinity Internet. We got free peacock through XFINITY we didn't have to do anything. It was just like on a list of like your some perks you get. Oh, okay.
Molly 43:45
All right, I'll
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:45
check check.
Molly 43:46
Our producer is Abby, sir. Catella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:48
Molly has a newsletter called I've got a feeling that you should sign up for at Molly weisenberg.substack.com. Matthew
Molly 43:55
makes music and you can listen to it. If you go to any like streaming music service and look for early to the airport. That's the name of his band of
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:04
our second EP isn't out by the time you hear this. There'll be like a host Matthew will be crying in the background.
Molly 44:10
Yeah, yeah, you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:15
and check in with other listeners and talk about what you like. Which temporary pieces do you select with your Udaan at everything spilled? milk.reddit.com And until next time, thank you for listening spilled milk. Don't put your hand in the Udaan machine.
Molly 44:29
Oh, wow. I'm Molly Weissenberg. And
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:32
I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
Molly 44:40
Doo doo doo doo doo togetherness.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai