Today we're dressed in barrels and ready to traverse the Fertile Crescent looking for raisin reasons and Western European Spreads. This is the Ultimate Showdown (or is it?) and after chatting aplicots and thermal sources we eventually reach the untimely demise of the show.
Matthew's Now but Wow! - “Fast Food in China is a Whole Other World”, reported by Yoyo Chow for Goldthread.
Listen to our spinoff show Dire Desires
Join our reddit
Molly 0:00
Hi. I'm Molly. And I'm Matthew and this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:10
And today we're having a dried fruit showdown.
Molly 0:14
I know you really want to eat some or maybe a
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:17
dried fruit hoedown
Molly 0:19
implies that this this dried fruit is like I don't know what the rodeo or something Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:24
I'm gonna get I'm gonna get out my fiddle.
Molly 0:25
Hold on If you were gonna be in a rodeo Would you
let me start over sneezing so
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:41
funny. Because you made a really funny sound. Okay, well, we'll keep it in. Yeah, for sure.
Molly 0:46
Anyway, if you are going to be in a rodeo, would you have dried fruit around as a snack?
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:51
Oh, I thought you're gonna ask like what event would I would I paid him but I don't know like what there is other than like, like fancy barrel racing. Calf roping is barrel racing. Like when you put on a barrel like You're like you've lost all your money in the stock market crash.
Molly 1:06
Yep, that's right. Okay. And suspenders. All you got left is a barrel and suspended
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:11
but I can but I can race and if I win, I might win that money back. That's true.
Molly 1:15
Yeah, the Rob was the robber barons have put all their money in rodeo price. That's right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:21
Plus, plus I look great in a barrel like really like accentuates like, barrel chest. Yes.
Molly 1:26
Oh, nice. I like that. Okay. Anyway. Yeah. So we've talked about various dried fruits on the show before we've talked about raisins. We've talked about prunes. We've talked about I think dried mango and dried apricot on the mango and apricot episode
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:41
dates. We did a date episode. Oh, oh, wow. Okay, well, anyway,
Molly 1:46
but today what we've done is we've collected a big pile of dried fruit. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:50
And did anyone request this? I don't think so. No,
Molly 1:53
no, we've collected a big pile and we're gonna we're gonna eat them and we're gonna name a champion.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:57
Yeah, I mean, we combined them all together that might be like the ultimate part of an ultimate trail mix. I don't know I feel like it needs some like knots or something. Yeah, trails
Molly 2:05
like it needs something else. But you know what this is it's gonna be the ultimate showdown.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:10
Yes, it will be the ultimate showdown. Yeah, like we're we built we built like, oh, like a cage. Like, like an octagon.
Molly 2:16
I see that on the agenda you wrote. This isn't the ultimate show. But it's a show that you
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:22
didn't have to read that though. I retract that this is the ultimate showdown. Okay, great.
Molly 2:26
Okay. Okay, first, let's just do kind of a broad dried fruit memory lane. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:31
I think the reason I said it wasn't the ultimate showdown is because I went to Trader Joe's and the co op and there are just so many different dried fruits. I think I like had this idea in my head that oh, there are 10 Dried fruits. And like if I buy all 10 We can have the ultimate showdown. That was a wild underestimate.
Molly 2:47
I mean, I'm pretty sure that one thing that we definitely don't have is goji berries. We don't have Goji but yeah, I mean that. I don't know why that came to mind.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:54
I don't you can get them. You can get them but we don't have them. We probably have them at MTM.
Molly 2:58
I mean, I'd venture to guess we have kind of a more like, I don't know, like an a, like a Western European spread.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:06
Yeah, we can spread Yeah. Okay. What are your What are your favorite Western European spreads?
Molly 3:12
I love a good cheese platter. I love charcuterie. Yeah, I love these dried fruit.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:18
We had it like possibly inspired I think inspired by the charcuterie platter episode. Like wotso listened to it and then said like it's a hot day. We're gonna have a charcuterie platter for dinner and oh my gosh. Oh satisfy
Molly 3:30
Wait, I love that Watson was like it's a hot day. Let's eat a lot of fatty salty meats but
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:36
but like you don't need to cook anything. That's true. It was true. It was very satisfying.
Molly 3:40
Have I told you about the what my spouse and I have come to refer to as like our Capris a salad? No, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:47
don't think so. Okay, well
Molly 3:48
so again, this is like our gonna be something really trashy. No, no, no, but it begins with so use kind of like a wide bowl like a possible okay string cheese and Ragu pave the bottom of the bowl with salami. You did tell me tell you about this. And then on top of that you do tomatoes mozzarella, you do some avocado sometimes some cucumber if you've got it except for the avocado. This sounds great. Some Basil of course olive oil, salt and pepper. But the salami is so good in there.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:17
Oh, yeah, of course. Did I mention on the show? We're way off topic here and I want to apologize to everybody but like that, like long after we did the pico de gallo episode I made some recipe that called for like making a cucumber Picota guy Oh, alongside me was so good.
Molly 4:36
That sounds fantastic. Okay, back to dried fruit. Matthew, what's on your dried fruit memory lane.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:43
Okay, so like when I was a kid, I had plenty of dried fruit, you know, raisins, dates, apples. Apricots, prunes are the main ones that I remember. But like it's not it's not really memory lane because it's just like yeah, I had dried fruit as a kid like I do have like one piece of actual dried fruit memory lane. Which was, I think I've talked about this on the show before the summer that I took third year accelerated intensive Japanese at University of Washington, and was studying Japanese seven to eight hours a day. I always because I was having lunch late because I was in class like solidly from like nine to 130. I think I knew okay, I'm not going to make it through there without a hearty snack. So every day, I would eat a peanut butter power bar, and a bunch of dried pineapple from Trader Joe's. So I didn't have to, like make a decision. That was what I had every day, every weekday all summer. And it's like, this is how Steve Jobs handled his words. Exactly. And and cup of coffee. Okay, and Sophie seems on like you I know. So I'd like if I'm gonna make it through this. This like the most intense academic experience of my life. Like I need to take coffee, dried fruit and a power bar and convert that into conversational Japanese and it worked.
Molly 5:50
Wow. Like, it was like a direct conversion. Like it was a direct conversion. You put foods into Matthew, Matthew produces conversation like dropping off
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:58
or like on top of my head. Yeah. And you put that stuff into the hopper and it came out as Japanese. Wait, I
Molly 6:04
have a question. I know that I knew you during this time. Oh, yeah. This was like 2015. Yeah. Okay, so we were making the show and everything but hold on Matthew. Like, what was? What is it like to do something that intensively and then just not do that anymore? Like, it reminds me a good question. It's like how I think about like old fashioned dieting ideas. Like you do this like intensive thing and then you just stop and I was always like, how does that work? But it makes more sense in conversational Japanese. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:37
don't I don't know. Like, I assume there was kind of like a like a letdown afterwards. Like, like now what am I doing with my life? Yeah. And
Molly 6:44
now that I've got all this conversational Japanese and all this fruit in my hopper.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:48
That's true. Yeah. No, I mean, I was I was digesting the fruit. Oh, okay.
Molly 6:51
But what about the conversational Japanese?
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:53
I mean, I did go to Japan a bunch more times after that. You sure did you so yeah, so I made use of it. And I like I continued to study and improve after that, just not as intensively. And then in like, over the last couple of years, I've not studied and unimproved. Oh,
Molly 7:07
that's that's what's happened to my French over the last like two decades. Sure. Okay. Okay, I'll do my memory. Oh, yes, please. So of course, like everybody I remember, you know, dried apricots of my youth. I remember disliking raisins, which is so common, but why do moves people? Or why do so many people dislike raisins? Like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:28
I don't know, I think of myself as disliking raisins. But I don't really have a Reason or Reason. Reason.
Molly 7:33
Very interesting. So I've never here's one thing I remember is that I remember when Craisins came on the market. Yes. And I just don't really get it. Like what's the big deal?
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:44
You didn't join the craze? No. I
Molly 7:46
mean, they like they're fine. Like did I feel like they turn and like they often show up in salads, right? Yeah, like they turn any salad into just like a festival of Craisins like you just lose track of everything else in the salad.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:59
You're it sounds like you're anti festival. No, I agree. Like, I don't need crazy salad. But like as a snack. I like them. Like I do think like when they first came out. I was kind of going and going a little crazy and crazy. And then and then like, you know, it was it was kind of a fad.
Molly 8:13
Okay, yeah, no, you're right. So my spouse has a fruit aversion. Yeah. Talks about that. And one of the few fruits that they really love are raisins. And ash loves raisins more than anyone I've ever known.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:27
Do they always carry around like a little box of Sun Maid raisins? I do. I do have a little bottle. Box. Yeah, I bet they actually I don't know. I don't want to I don't want to speculate. Okay.
Molly 8:38
Okay. You know, I did recently last time
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:41
I speculated I lost everything and had to wear a bear.
Molly 8:45
That was really good. Nice one. I was recently at Fred Meyer getting some stuff like for a camping trip or something. And we needed some reasons and so I went to like the raisins section. And they stories and if they still sell like raisins in like a cardboard tube, you know, like, like the old like, like Quaker rolled oats tube almost like
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:07
a tube like that of. I'm glad you mentioned that because I have prunes in a tube right now.
Molly 9:12
What a fascinating way of like, why not put them in a box? A box could be more easily packed into like a case. Right? What I mean? I want to know like, I want to know about
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:23
the two dozen pack as efficiently but I imagine it's sturdier because like the core the corners of the box are gonna are gonna crumble. That's true. Um, I mean, that doesn't stop them from putting cereal in a box. That theory makes no sense. Yeah. Anyway, there was a brief time when my favorite brand of canned chili is stag chili and there was a very brief time when they took they stopped putting their chili in cans and put it in like aseptic boxes instead. And they were like, you know, this is going to like you know, save save on like carbon emissions and like pack more for efficiently The and this lasted for like a month. Maybe. Wow. And then he went back to cans like I didn't have any problem with the box. I don't know like why wonder what workout there was a big box backlash. Yeah, but no, maybe there was a big box backlash.
Molly 10:13
Yeah. Anyway, I don't really have much of a dried fruit Memory Lane except just that there's so much dried fruit in childhood. Oh yeah, I mean like childhood is just like one dried fruit after another because
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:25
you need you need something to carry as a parent to carry around that like, you know, if you don't eat it all that day, it's still gonna be fine the next day and is like, you know, in discrete, like parcels.
Molly 10:36
Yeah, I mean, I also carried around what else do I carry around like graham crackers. I carried around like goldfish cartridges. Yeah, but those things also have to be in some sort of packaging that doesn't allow them to be crushed. Yeah, because you have to be able to like shove them in your tote bag or the glove compartment of your car or whatever. And yeah, so whenever I was carrying around goldfish crackers, yeah, it was like a Tupperware and that's just not very convenient.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:02
No, it's not. So you shouldn't you should have put them in a cardboard tube. Like a poster tube.
Molly 11:08
Just stuffed with with snacks all the way to the top. Yep. Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:13
every time I see like, occasionally someone will receive something packed in a poster tube. That like arrives in the in our building lobby and I always wonder like, you know, did they get like, like a Nagel poster? Or isn't isn't that the name of that? That artist? Am I like Miss remembering the new I don't know, from the 80s would like you know, the very like, you know, kind of vivid pastel colored like, oh, I
Molly 11:37
don't remember what will Google this i or maybe maybe they got one of those magic eye posts. Maybe
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:42
they got a magic I poster. Maybe they got a Scarface poster.
Molly 11:47
Maybe they got a Jon Bon Jovi poster. Yes. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:51
I had three. From the movie Young guy.
Molly 11:54
Can I tell you about some dried fruit? Sure. So there is a whole Wikipedia page for dried fruit. Okay, good, which somehow surprised me but I'm pleased. So Matthew, I want to give you a little bit of history. All right. Bet this goes way back this goes so far back so drying fruit dates back to the fourth millennium BC.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:13
I think probably fruits were drying like before humans Exactly. Seen we just weren't around to taste them. That's true.
Molly 12:19
It's like It's like the the bear in the woods thing. Yes. Write that. But hold on. Wait, Matthew, I have a question. Because as I was researching this, I got myself really confused. So the fourth millennium BCE, is that the 3000s BCE?
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:36
Yep. Okay. Yeah, cuz the first millennium BC would be from like,
Molly 12:39
zero to 1000. Yeah. Okay, great. All right. So trying for dates back way, way way back there. What if we had gotten that wrong then we would have been in big trouble so it dates back like 5000 years to Mesopotamia so you know, think Fertile Crescent think like Lebanon wasting Syria, Iraq turkey. So the earliest recorded mentioned of dried fruits and I thought this was pretty cool. Okay, it's found in or on? I don't know what is the right preposition here. Mesopotamian clay tablet? Yeah, dating to 1500 BCE. Bring back clay tablets and these clay tablets from Mesopotamia that contain what might be some of the oldest written recipes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:20
Okay, so yeah, so like, like ways two ways to doctor like Dr. Like instant ramen.
Molly 13:26
Exactly, exactly. How to make pancetta. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:30
Okay, three, three bean salad.
Molly 13:33
Open a can. All right. So these tablets, as I mentioned, were clay slabs and they were written in I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing this right, but Akkadian which was the like the daily language of Babylonia, okay. And they were inscribed in cuneiform.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:48
All right, I think cuneiform was a writing system that could be used to write several different
Molly 13:53
languages. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, the die are like our writing system. Oh, that's a really good point. Yeah, okay. Anyway, the diet in that area was based on grains and vegetables and fruits like dates and figs and apples, pomegranates and grapes. And for sweeteners sounds pretty good. For sweeteners. They used dates, date juice, that they evaporated into syrup and raisin, okay. And they also use dried fruits in their breads. And apparently, they had tons of different kinds of breads. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:22
anyway, did they ever put dried fruit in their fruit cake that was later found in an archeological dig and kids? Today,
Molly 14:30
many of the most common dried fruits that we think of today, were cultivated early on in that part of the world. Okay. So for instance, the date palm is one of the first cultivated trees, all right, and it was domesticated in in the Fertile Crescent more than 5000 years ago.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:46
Yeah, it seems like this is something that like, you know, at least sort of modern societies have kind of lost touch with the idea that like, dates, like like we've found that like these, these things that grow this tree are really good. I didn't so we're gonna just eat that all the time.
Molly 15:02
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, that was the thing.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:04
I guess that's sort of what we'd have it like corn syrup, but that doesn't really feel the same. It doesn't
Molly 15:08
feel the same. So deep palms also were so productive. I mean, they grew so much fruit right that yeah, the dates became a real staple of the diet at that time and figs were kind of the same story. They were a staple I've found in Palestine and Egypt, particularly in Greece, apparently. And then the figs
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:31
as as a Greek thing. Yeah, not not exclusively a Greek thing. But yeah, I mean, but you've been to me posts would know better than me.
Molly 15:40
I'd love that you keep remembering the name of this fictional island we invented.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:44
We didn't invent invent.
Molly 15:50
Anyway, so So dates, figs, grapes were another really common cultivated plant in that area. Grape cultivation first began in Armenia. All right, which I don't think I knew. And an eastern parts of the Mediterranean in the fourth century BC, so again, call that viticulture. Exactly. So yeah, grape cultivation began like 5000 years ago, and raisins were produced by drying grapes in the hot desert sun and then viticulture. Nice. Yeah, Matthew and raisin production spread across northern Africa, the Egyptians and the Phoenicians apparently really got into the production of raisins, probably due to the fact that their climates were so good for sun drying. And then from the Middle East, these fruits spread up through or up and over through Greece and Italy, where they became an important part of the diet there too. Okay. Yeah. I thought this was interesting. Ancient Romans consumed massive quantities of raisins.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:48
Okay, I have two questions. Yes. What first of all, what constitutes massive quantities? I'm not sure. Okay. I don't have like a way like, like a like a stash of raisins, like in the folds of their togas and just kind of reach in there and then like at the end of the day, they would like shake them out and like collect the remaining raisins. So that would be like a little like attached
Molly 17:04
to their being you know, if your toga had like a belt or a sash, I can imagine there being a special pouch. You attach like like if you have a dog and you're you have a treat pouch maybe the you attach to your belt. Sure they had recent pouches.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:18
Okay, that makes sense. It's hard to imagine like you know, it's easy to imagine like I know Socrates wasn't Roman who's who's who's a famous Roman Nero Nero. Like you know giving like like giving a speech and like like reaching in and like like grabbing a barrel raisins Yeah. Jerry a little break in the
Molly 17:36
speech. Well, Matthew, get this so in ancient Rome, apparently, raisins were so valued that they quote, transcended the food realm. Wow. This is how it was worded on Wikipedia, and became rewards for successful athletes as well as premium barter currency. Wow. Yeah. Figs were also what popular do successful athletes get rewarded with today? Wheaties sweet Yes. And Disneyland? Yeah, my favorite food. Okay, so fix were also super popular. They were added to bread. They were also rubbed with spices. Okay, and then wrapped in in figleaves and stored and I you know, they were wrapped in fig leaf so you wouldn't see their junk. Exactly. And I remember so, Louisa Weiss once I think posted a picture of some spice rubbed figs that her mother her mother who is Italian had made rubbed with some sort of spices and stored in a tin and fig leaves. Okay, like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:34
I wonder like, if they're, you know, because when he said that what it made me think of was I didn't get the the like, you know, spice rubbed pine tried pineapple at Trader Joe's even though it looked really good because I'd already bought like 10 kinds of dried fruit but like it's that almost like tahini. Yeah. But like it's not it's not entirely different from what you just described. It's just like spicier. Yeah. Oh, that's
Molly 18:57
cool. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, so yeah, so that's, that's kind of the history of dried dates and figs and grapes. Yeah. And then, you know, these other these other popular ones, plums, apricots, peaches. They had their origins further east in Asia. Those plants are domesticated in China. And then they spread to the Fertile Crescent, where they were really popular there too. Okay, so there was all this fruit early on, and as it happened, it over time dried out. There was just so much fruit. And overtime people were figuring out that drying or dehydration could be used to preserve food in general.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:35
They were figuring that out by staying up late and watching the Ron co food dehydrator commercial.
Molly 19:42
Anyway, this bit of history seems almost too easy. Like, according to Wikipedia, grapes, dates and figs that fell from the tree or Vine would just dry in the hot sun and then early hunter gatherers observed that the dried Fallen Fruit was still edible. I mean, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:56
kind of by this like you know, it's not it's not like a you Oops, I dropped my burrito into the fryer type of origin story.
Molly 20:03
It's more like chocolate chips fell into the batter, right? It's
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:06
more like, you know, we're like in, in an age where we're like still still kind of figuring out like what we can and can't eat like yeah, we're gonna try like the, the fruit that dried on the ground.
Molly 20:15
Yeah, okay. Okay, that makes sense. I imagined like the period
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:19
when people were like figuring this out was pretty was pretty short. Like, okay, we can make raisins.
Molly 20:26
So yeah, I mean, obviously so so people love dried fruit because drying concentrates the flavor yeah, sometimes changes it a bit, we'll get into talking about that. Drying fruit also mostly preserves its nutrients, sure, which would have been useful, especially in times of scarcity or maybe if you're out in the desert. And of course, it has a long shelf life because removing water from something inhibits the ability of like bacteria and fungi to grow.
So let's start eating and then I want to talk about
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:59
methods of drying. Where should we start? Because we have at least like we have like 10
Molly 21:05
array it all arranged at all. Yeah, let's spread it out as an array. Okay, and let's choose, let me get it. Let me get a plate. Okay, so we have mostly things here that are like what we think of as like conventional dried stuff, you know, like chewy kind of texture. But we do also have one thing that is freeze dried, and that's going to be pretty exciting.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:26
Yeah. And when you brought that I was frankly shocked because I didn't know we were doing freeze dried fruits as well. I know I'm full of surprises. Now on the the box of dates that you just opened it says fresh dates. I know right? I think they're clearly dryly dried. I don't know what a fresh date would be. Although I think we talked about it on the date episode.
Molly 21:47
Let's see. Ya firstly would not look like this. It wouldn't be as wrinkly for Wembley I don't want to touch the strawberries yet because they're gonna get powder all over my fingers and I don't want to teach them yet right so did you go to the coop? What happened here?
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:03
I totally went to the coop I got a bunch of bunch of bulk babies. And you also
Molly 22:06
got the California slab app. Trader Joe's
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:10
like Oh, those are those applicant applicants.
Molly 22:16
They changed the packaging.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:17
I thought so because when I saw it I was like I don't remember seeing this before but those are definitely the ones that Molly mentioned.
Molly 22:22
I think we should approach these going from west to east so for like Final Crescent towards like more like Eastern Asia. Okay, except I don't really know where pineapples were originally domesticated. Do you?
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:38
I mean, I'm gonna I'm imagining probably like South Asia or are the South Pacific
Molly 22:44
Okay, so either way they're going to be east of the Fertile Crescent. If I don't Well, it depends on which way you're going. It does. It does. Oh my god, this is complicated. Now
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:52
everything's a matter of perspective. Okay, I'm not I think I feel like I'm missing something
Molly 22:57
wherever oranges first domesticated I don't know what you got mandarin oranges here, but
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:03
I didn't realize there was going to be that domestication quiz. Okay, okay. Anything else that were males? Think that might be it. Okay, this gnocchi is not a dried fruit.
Molly 23:14
Okay, that's a teaser for the next episode. All right, Matthew. I kind of feel like we should start with raisins. Yeah, okay, so it looks like here we've got some sort of ordinary looking
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:24
flame seedless flame raisins. Okay. I don't know what I like the name and I so they look
Molly 23:31
a little nicer than like your ordinary raisin. Yeah, tastes like a raisin when it tastes like a raisin. Okay, no, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:37
think I still don't like arrays. Really? Yeah. I don't hate them. But just like you know, it tastes like a raisin. Okay,
Molly 23:45
what are these other ones these This looks like a different race. This
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:47
is a dried sour cherry. Oh, that's not a race. I mean, but they do look very similar. Looks like a like a slightly plumper raisins.
Molly 23:55
So you didn't get any golden raisins. I didn't get any golden raisins. And you also didn't get any unsulfured apricots.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:00
I didn't. I thought you said you didn't like them. But you said you liked them. So we were gonna have a showdown. I should have gotten unsalted apricots at the coop. Okay, yeah, this is as we said, this is not the ultimate showdown. Okay, like you like we're halfway to the ultimate showdown like another 750 episodes from now. What episode is this? A 564 Okay, so okay, hold on man. Episode 1100 will be the ultimate show not believe Leave me 564 episodes of this particular show. Matthew,
Molly 24:30
let's do the figs next. Okay, these look like mission figs.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:33
They are black mission figs. I find this like a really attractive dried fruit. It's got a nice size and heft to it.
Molly 24:39
I do enjoy the texture of the seeds. There are so many different kinds of dried figs. So they're the kind that come in like a round little, almost clamshell kind of thing and they're they're like lighter tan and they're nestled together are those like Cal Myrna?
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:55
That was the name that came to mind? Yeah, this is really Fig Newton
Molly 24:58
knee. There's just so big Newton this is like basically eating a Fig Newton.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:04
If we didn't like it, there'd be a big mutiny.
Molly 25:10
Wait, you're gonna leave that little bit of dried fig?
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:12
I'm afraid I'm afraid of like hitting the wall but like there's really not that kind of wall. Dried fruit wall.
Molly 25:19
Okay, so that was the fifth. You know, I have to say though, that's nice, but I don't know when I would eat that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:25
Yeah.
Molly 25:27
I mean, it's fine. Yeah, I wouldn't like choose to chop it up and put it in a baked good.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:32
No. Yeah, I'm curious what's going to happen to it after this episode. Like, am I gonna eat the rest? Or is it going to continue to dry till the till it's like hard and petrified? Yeah, who knows? Only time will tell the petrified fruit episode will be coming up in the future.
Molly 25:51
Should we go prunes?
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:52
Let's go print. Yeah, okay,
Molly 25:53
so Matthew, tell me about about these prunes. Haven't these had something like rubbed on them? Or?
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:57
I think they have. Yeah, like, I don't know why they've got that sort of like oiliness. Let's see. So I love prunes. It just says it just says dried pitted plums and potassium sorbate added as a preservative. These are these are like the the Safeway signature brand prunes, which is what I usually buy. And I like them. I love prunes. Yeah, they're so good. What is not to love? Why are these like the punchline of so many jokes? You know? Because like, like grandpa eats him to stay regular. But you know what? Soda? Why?
Molly 26:27
How many do you have to eat to stay regular?
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:30
I don't know. Like, a few five a day. Maybe? Uh, do you
Molly 26:33
usually do that? Is it like a prescription you give to yourself? Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:37
I guess so. Oh, wow.
Molly 26:39
Okay, cool. All right, great. Let's try these dates. So I wanted you know, I kind of like it. I always feel like I'm really treating myself when I buy high quality pitted dates, but these have pits. So be careful. Okay. Oh, you're biting from the end and I'm biting from the side. Oh.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:59
So, no, I
Molly 27:00
find dates to taste really filling. I'm gonna I'm gonna hold off on finishing this one
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:05
real rich and fudgy. We talked about Yeah, we like go back to the date episode. I don't know what number it was. But I'm gonna say 295 and cuz I think we talked a lot about like the fuzziness of dates, like how they seem really filling compared to other dried fruits. And something else. I was gonna say that it remember.
Molly 27:24
You know, I really like dates. But I think I prefer the flavor of prunes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:30
Yeah, I think so too. The other thing it's usually about dates is that I always think of dates like as a kid as like the little bits of date in trail mix that are like have like,
Molly 27:39
sugar like powder, powdered sugar type thing. You know, I learned in researching this episode that a lot of the fruits that are in trail mix, like papaya and stuff like that is usually candied as opposed to
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:51
that makes it dry. Like I've definitely I can definitely like think of a candied pineapple that I've had in a trail mix.
Molly 27:57
Yeah. Matthew, I think we should do apricot snacks. Yeah, I was thinking that. These are the California slab apricots from Trader Joe's. Oh, these are good. You're so good. So these are our Salford. They're a brilliant orange color. And they're so tender. Mm hmm.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:14
I love the texture of just like like the smoothness.
Molly 28:18
I know. Right? You're stroking the dried apricot. So tell me about so I have not had unsalted apricots recently. Tell me about how you would compare these.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:28
They're just like much drier and chewier I'm like flavors. Also darker. The flavors also darker. Like it's just a totally different fruit.
Molly 28:36
Yeah. Okay, Matthew, what should we taste next?
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:39
Let's do the dried cherries next.
Molly 28:41
Okay, now some dried cherries are sweetened. Are these Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:44
they are. I think. Actually, no, I got these from the coop. I bet they're unsweetened.
Molly 28:50
Now these are nice. You know, I don't love cherries in any form except fresh. I like these, like cherry pie. These are knives. But I wouldn't be like, I can't wait to put some in a cookie or whatever.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:03
Yeah, when you said I don't like cherry pie. And like, you know people like people are gonna turn on you for that. But I can I can come up with something worse like that worse than that, which is I only like cherry pie. But really, if it's really good, which it almost never is.
Molly 29:16
Okay. What next? We've got oranges, mandarin oranges. Now I find this to be a strange concept. You don't usually see.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:24
Yeah, I got these because I feel like I've bought them before and enjoyed them, but I don't remember if that's true.
Molly 29:29
These are definitely sweetened. I'm pretty sure I used to buy these for June's lunchbox sometimes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:34
Oh, I like these.
Molly 29:36
Oh, wow. That's like dessert.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:39
It's totally dessert. But I'm enjoying it.
Molly 29:42
What do you what where's the package?
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:44
It's, I feel like it has like a little bit of like orange soda flavor.
Molly 29:49
That is fascinating. Oh, by the way, if you buy fruit at Trader Joe's you will notice some of them are are labeled soft and juicy. Okay, I find those ones are usually sweetened. That makes so there's like dry mango and then there's soft and juicy mangoes because
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:01
like the added sugar like has a hygroscopic effect
and that's how the show ended. Like we made it by 563 and a half episodes before I did hydrogen hygroscopic and killed hygroscopic hygroscopic Yes. And not hydroscopic No,
Molly 30:30
wait a minute Hold on What is your hydro in height? Your your glass is tilting it's gonna spill. Okay, thanks. Hi grow.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:39
So like a hygrometer? What measures humidity, right? No, I don't know. Okay, Miss, you know, you know who we need to get in here. Mr. Etymology?
Molly 30:50
Okay. Hike. High Growth Areas measure humidity. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:54
I don't know the difference between the hydro and hydro prefix is they're both water related, obviously. But I think when something when you're talking about like, you know, like, so like how much water is in something that's like high grow.
Molly 31:08
Okay, so why is it hydro scopic instead of like hydro, but it's gross. scopic high gross. scopic. Instead of like a high growth.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:16
Microscopic means it draws in moisture, it scopes it, it scopes it out. Like I'm scoping out your moisture. And I'm gonna try it and yeah, so it's because because there's sugar like they stay plumper, because they actually draw water in out of the water vapor and out of the air. I just speculate. Do you
Molly 31:38
think that if I left these open on the counter for a while they would eventually completely rehydrate.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:47
Now I was I was so I was so shocked by that question that I chose. My major and orange. I was I was wondering like, would they continue to plump or would they would they dry out if you left them out? I do not know the answer. I mean, depends on like where they are compared to like the equilibrium point when they're right now when they're in the back, right,
Molly 32:07
I've already stopped listening. Okay, great. Hold on. Matthew. I'm looking at this dried pineapple that we're going to eat next. This looks a bit like jackfruit or is it breadfruit? Ooh, which one is like this color? And as these kind of like, like, like a muscley looking ribbed quality?
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:24
Yeah, I don't remember this is this is these are two like staple staple fruits that I know very little about.
Molly 32:31
Clearly me too. Huh? Okay, this is nice.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:34
This is really good. It's very similar to the Trader Joe's. Huh? Yeah, traders. This reminds me of my like summer of intensive Japanese, huh.
Molly 32:43
That's nice. Okay, so let's find out the tasting with some freeze dried strawberries and then I'm going to throw down some more knowledge on you please. Okay, these are freeze dried strawberries in like, like a foil resealable pouch that my child is always drawn to near the checkout line sec.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:05
Now, I feel like these these freeze dried fruits like are often used to make like like frostings or
Molly 33:12
Yes, yeah. Because you can grind them up. And they have I don't like this. You don't like that? I don't think so. No. Have you ever had like freeze dried banana?
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:25
I think so. I don't know if I liked the freeze dried texture. Like I like ground up and put in a frosting. Sure, but like, it just feels it's it just seems like weirdly dry. To me.
Molly 33:35
It does seem like you are eating there's like what else is this texture? It's like a astronaut ice cream texture.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:43
Yeah. Which like nobody. Nobody eats that except as a gag. But apparently people like freeze dried fruit.
Molly 33:48
Yeah, I don't know why my kid likes this so much. I mean, it is really wonderful and tangy. Yeah. Okay, well, anyway, let's Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:55
I mean, it's, you know, it's because like, what, what I'm objecting to is the texture and texture is like highly individualistic.
Molly 34:02
Okay. Okay, let's talk a little bit about drying methods. Just because I found it a little bit interesting. Okay, great. So sun drying as you can imagine is like the most traditional way of trying things Yeah, but a bit it's slow slower is really slow. So you know, it uses the sun as a thermal source therefore you Yeah, I think therefore you need you need like a hot climate you need like lots of daylight. And in the process, it's difficult to keep critters from getting at it critters. Yeah. Whether microscopic critters or bigger and gather. Yeah, so there's sun drying which isn't done much anymore because Well for one thing it takes a long time. The other thing is like sun dried raisins, which I think you still can find out in the world. They require more like labor hours.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:47
Oh sure. Right right or you can find Sun Maid raisins. Is that the same thing? I don't think it I don't think it is
Molly 34:53
either. Okay, but anyway, a more typical way of drying things so that they have that usual gummy Extra we think of with dried fruit, okay, is tray drying or sometimes called the air drying. All right, and it's basically dehydrating with the help of a hot air source. All right, that makes sense. So it's kind of a, from what I understand a tray dryer looks and sort of functions similarly to like a convection dryer or convection oven.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:19
It's called it's called that because you dry them until they're tight. Very dry. Right?
Molly 35:23
That was nice. That was nice. Anyway, the food is placed on trays in an enclosed insulated chamber. Hot air moves around dries them, like a convection oven. Exactly. That's what I just said.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:38
Anyone? I didn't hear you because I was thinking about my very good friends, Jeff.
Molly 35:42
So anyway, this is faster than sun drying, as you can imagine. Yep. Okay, moving right along here. All right. So I'm guessing that's how a lot of stuff is dried these days? But I don't know for sure.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:53
It seems like it must be. Unless, unless like you're about to like really, like lay down something like nuclear?
Molly 35:59
Well, no, there's another one called vacuum microwave drying, which uses microwave radiation. And I struggled to understand anything about the description of this, except that the drying time, like it doesn't take very long, and the color, texture and taste of the food is maintained. So I don't know maybe we've all encountered more things that are vacuum microwave dried than I think
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:21
but I was I was gonna mention like microwaving like as a joke and like, I didn't know this existed at all. And now I'm kind of fascinated. I don't
Molly 36:28
know if, like vacuum microwave drying obviously requires more sophisticated technology than you know,
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:34
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna I'm gonna put grapes in the microwave because they might explode and it might be awesome, but not to make raisins.
Molly 36:40
Okay, so the fourth, you know, typical method or, you know, method used today for drying foods is freeze drying.
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:50
I'm realizing, as you mentioned this that I do not actually know what freeze how freeze drying works. So
Molly 36:55
maybe you can help me understand this because I did learn how it works. And it sort of makes sense, right? So freeze drying is also known as cryo desiccation, which is what I'm going to call my new metal band.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:05
I wish I wish I could do the metal metal voice like I probably could learn.
Molly 37:12
Yeah, no, that sounds more like like, Tales from the Crypt.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:16
Yeah. Which which is related. But yeah, I'm afraid it would like hurt myself learning how to do it. You know? cryo? Does it Kasia?
Molly 37:22
Oh, that was really good.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:24
I did that like two more times, then I would have to end the episode. Okay.
Molly 37:27
Anyway, so freeze drying is obviously a low temperature dehydration process. And the way it works is that you freeze the food, okay, you lower the pressure, oh, the chamber and you read you like heat it to remove the ice in the object by sublimation. So in other words, like fresh fruit is frozen, then it's placed in a drying chamber under vacuum. And heat is applied and the water evaporates while the fruit is still frozen. Okay, so the water in the in the frozen fruit basically goes from being a solid to a gas. sublimation. Yeah. So I don't really understand how this works, or why it leaves things, the texture they are
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:13
but I think the low pressure is the key thing. That's the part that I wasn't getting because like, you know, if you just like free something, it's not dry. Right? But I mean, it's it's sort of like it gets drier but not as dry as something that's freeze right? So it's Yeah, so there's you're you're like vacuum vacuum freezing it
Molly 38:32
Yes. Yes. Sort of there's a lot of vacuuming going on.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:35
Yeah, but I mean you're you're you're kind of literally vacuuming the moisture out of the fruit like now with like a little dustbuster but by lowering the pressure in the chamber right so so the you know, the pressure like then wants to wants to equalize so so the you know, the the the water in the fruit wants to migrate out into the atmosphere. Yeah, cool.
Molly 38:56
Anyway, freeze drying is expensive, which is why it has tended to be reserved for like certain genres like, like astronaut food, sure. Backpacking food food that needs to be really lightweight. So it's really expensive, but on the plus side, it has less of an effect on flavor and color than like other forms of dehydration
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:16
is like strawberry chunk is the color of strawberries. Yeah,
Molly 39:20
and apparently freeze dried fruit can be rehydrated whereas for instance, you cannot take something that is sun dried or trade dried and rehydrate it well.
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:33
Right. And like it seems like it doesn't shrink as much. I think that seems it because it's still like it probably just like has a bunch of air holes in it. Yes. Yeah. So we could rehydrate this piece of strawberry and it would be indistinguishable from a fresh truck.
Molly 39:47
Oh, for sure. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, I just have like, I think we're coming to the end here. Okay. But I just wanted to talk for a minute about sulfur because this is something that gets like demonized and dried fruits. Sure And from what I understand and I am of course not an expert but sulfur dioxide, which is used in some dried fruits to maintain their color and flavor. It has gotten demonized because some people of course, are sensitive to sulfites. Right? And apparently, especially people with asthma are sensitive to salt, which is a lot of people. Yeah. So it is it's a huge number of people. So, the USDA requires manufacturers and producers who use sulfites in their food preservation, to declare it. And you know, anyway, as a result, a lot of places refuse or like, I think PCC here in Seattle, maybe doesn't carry dried fruits that have been the coop is the same. But I don't know. I mean, I am grateful that I am not sensitive because I really enjoy Salford fruits. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Anyway, all of our new slab apricots are slab terrific. They are, they are. So yeah, it's kind of like, you know, tune came home from summer camp the other day and was we were talking about the food at summer camp. And Jun was like, yeah, one of the kids in my cabin was saying that, that she's never had salt. And I was like, and then June was like another one of the kids in my cabin was saying salt is really bad for you. So we had the conversation about like, you know, certain medical conditions or whatever, where there are definitely people who are sensitive to salt. But the rest of us are fine eating, you know, a typical amount of salt. Yeah, I would say the same thing probably goes for cell fights.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:30
Yeah, I think that's probably true. Yeah, I think I think that's kind of like a general sort of like, nutrition ism thing of like, you know, take, you know, focus on something that is that is like, you know, demonstrably harmful to a subgroup of people and say like, maybe that's bad for everyone. Yes. And it doesn't really worked out.
Molly 41:48
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, everybody, go eat some dried fruit. Tell us what's your favorite
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:55
platter? Cheese, played it up and let us know how it goes there. So like we didn't have any dried apples today, which is really static item for me.
Molly 42:03
What else did we not have? No, like banana chips. A lot of people are into those. What else? Do we not have?
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:10
Dried kiwis? Oh, I didn't have that. Never even if that exists. I just thought of a fruit. Oh, we
Molly 42:17
didn't even have any dried mango today? No, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:20
like passed it up. Because like I've had I've had it recently and I figured I would remember what it was like But that wasn't a good reason. Because I love
Molly 42:28
although, you know for a while I was buying a particular like package of dried mango. They had a PCC and it was so tart. I could not eat. That sounds great. And I am someone who loves sour things. Like
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:41
who's someone who was selling dried green mango right? Feel like this is the thing. I don't know. I think I've had that it was really good. Is fruit leather dried fruit? It is. Okay, it is it's basically we done a fruit leather episode. I
Molly 42:55
don't know. I did see a mention of fruit leather in my research and basically from what I understand it's like dried fruit that is like you know, pureed. Yeah, and then dried. A little bit on a
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:05
cellophane. Peel it off and it makes an awesome sound. And sometimes it's really hard to peel off. We haven't done a fruit leather episode we'll do it Okay, okay. All right,
Molly 43:15
Matthew, do we have any segments
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:17
we do here? How about uh now but wow. Oh please see
so I watched this great video on YouTube that was reported by yo yo Chow for gold thread magazine and it's called fast food in China is a whole other world and one of my favorite things is international fast food. And this one This video focuses mainly on McDonald's and KFC and like the the local market and and seasonal and limited edition items that they market at their at their locations in China. Some of which are just amazing like you can get like a like a Zongzi like sticky rice wrapped dumpling at McDonald's in China and the person who like introduces the food and like does the eating is a is a Chung do based food blogger named Stephanie they did not give her last name I tried to like you know, find her food blog and couldn't so if anyone knows let me know. But she has like just a delightful screen presence and just like you know, makes makes the whole experience like come alive in a way that really transcends like Subway City get eating in a fast food place. I do hope they will do or have already done and I haven't found it yet a follow up on like local chains because often like the you know, the local competitors to the international fast food chains are even more interesting, but I loved this video and we will link to it in the show notes. It's called fast food in China is a whole other world from gold thread.
Molly 44:52
Delightful. Our producer is Abby sir Catella Please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts and you can chat with other spilled milk lists. nors about your favorite dried fruits and anything else you want on our subreddit, which only
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:05
dried fruits. Oh, sorry. reddit.com/are/everything spilled milk.
Molly 45:10
Yeah, only dried fruits from here on out. Right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:13
Till next time. Keep it hygroscopic
Molly 45:16
I'm Molly Weissenberg. I'm
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:18
Matthew Amster-Burton
Molly 45:30
So, okay, we have here and we should take a picture of okay, Abby, look what I just did. I've remembered to get us to take a picture of it. Okay. All right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:40
And now we should get out our easels and Mikus and paint a still life. Yes.