Today we recount some adventures in democracy and our thoughts on the NordicTrack as we learn all about Falafel from our special guest. Yumna Jawad gives us tips and rules to follow for making Falafel and we learn a lot, though we can't help being relentlessly provincial.
Yumna Jawad
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Matthew Amster-Burton 0:00
Hi I'm Matthew
Molly 0:05
I'm Molly and
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:06
this is spilled milk this year where we cook something delicious eat it all and you can't have any
Molly 0:10
today we are talking about falafel with a special guest who is going to pronounce it in the more correct Arabic fashion.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:18
Yeah, I am excited. I'm excited for this. We've had this episode on the agenda for a long time and we haven't done it because Molly and I were like we do not know even 10% of what we would need to know about falafel to do this episode. So we brought on an expert
Molly 0:32
we found the right person and she'll be joining us soon
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:36
so I was just before we started recording I was I was telling Molly that I just took a trip to Denver Colorado to to meet up with a couple of friends and see a show at Red Rocks. And I did for what was for me I think an impressive amount of eating while I was there.
Molly 0:51
I mean Hold on. Wait I want to remind the listeners that Matthew For all his enthusiasm for food and all his love for cooking and eating when we want sat down together and tasted a bunch of apples Matthew started complaining that he was after the equivalent of like one half an apple. Okay everybody, so I need you to know this going in now. Go ahead Matthew.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:18
Okay, yeah, cuz I have a tiny little bird tummy. Okay, so the evening I arrived in Denver I first I got an empanada for a snack from a place called Maria empanada which is very good. We planned this whole out ahead of time. Well, I'd like written down the names of a couple places in the neighborhood. I was staying and I was like, Okay, this seems promising. If I go by that place, I will give it a try. And so I walked by Maria empanada on the way to my Airbnb and got a chicken Chipotle empanada which is very tasty, then let's see. Then for dinner. First dinner, I went to a place a chain winebar called post Steena which was running a bruschetta contest. And this is not like a how much bruschetta Can you eat contest? This was a contest where chefs come up with a bruschetta topping and they pit two of them against each other like at a time and like a bracket kind of scenario.
Molly 2:09
Did you know that this is what you were heading into?
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:12
Absolutely not. Okay, so like I was like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna stop off at this place and and loose looks nice. And it's just around the corner and have a glass of wine while I think about what to do next. So I got some Riesling and then I was like, give me the bruschetta contest please. And so they brought out two different bruschetta one was Mexican street corn and one was the Italian which was like extremely overloaded with like cheese salami ham lettuce, and like two different sauces
Molly 2:39
Whoa this that's not a bruschetta that's an open face sandwich.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:43
Oh no that yeah, they were totally like you know this this if like actual Italians came to this place there would be they would die but I thought both of them were very tasty especially the Mexican street corn and then you get to vote for your favorite so like I participated in democracy that's what democracy even registered to vote in Denver.
Molly 3:01
What else did you eat? Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:02
then I went to Little Man ice cream which is this ice cream place I believe I believe why for the show. Laurie referred to it as big jug ice cream because it's like housed in like a giant milk bottle and got some salted Oreo ice cream. It was very tasty. And then I went to a hot chicken place and got one spicy chicken tender for dessert.
Molly 3:23
Wow, this was all in one night.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:25
This is all in one night and then the next morning. The next morning I went and got tamales at a breakfast tamale place.
Molly 3:30
I'm so proud of you.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:32
I knew you would.
Molly 3:33
Oh this is this is big. What did you have to do some like training for your like endurance? Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:40
I do some some power lifting. Some I got one of those Nordic track machines.
Molly 3:47
Do people still have though? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:48
was I was just about to ask you this. They've big I've no idea. Do you
Molly 3:51
remember like did you have any friends when you were growing? What did you have any friends when you were growing up? Full stop. No. Yes. Did you have any friends whose parents had either a Nordic track or a rowing machine?
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:04
Absolutely. Yes, I think probably both. But I absolutely remember having a friend whose parents have the Nordic track machine and we got to play with it.
Molly 4:11
I loved the Nordic track ads. It was so soothing. Like if there was ever a form of exercise equipment that looked really relaxing to use. It was the Nordic track.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:22
I bet they still sell it let's see Nordic track, Nordic track exercise equipment treadmills, bikes, and more.
Molly 4:30
Oh, seems like things have gotten a little watered down.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:33
Oh, there is no hint of a ski machine on the front page of this NordicTrack website. It looks like oh, it's completely dead.
Molly 4:42
Okay, well anyway, thank you for looking at what used I bet I could. So Matthew let's talk about falafel Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:51
let's do it falafel. Let's
Molly 4:52
begin on memory lane.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:53
That's a great place.
Molly 4:54
I think we both have a fair amount on memory lane here from what I do on the floor. yeah I know it's interesting so I think that my first falafel encounter I don't remember where it is but where it is
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:10
where is where
Molly 5:11
it was like number like 1200 You know on the like on the actual street but it wasn't there
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:19
no more to the falafel lot on memory lane but like it was it was shut down and
Molly 5:26
I'm picturing it as Diagon Alley except okay sure it's less rainy maybe more like desert conditions
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:34
well because the rain would like on crisp the falafel That's right, that's right one time. Did I tell you that one one time like several years ago I we were going out for fried chicken sandwiches and it was like starting to rain and I indicated that I was worried that the rain might unpressed my chicken sandwich and my family has been making fun of me for this ever since
Molly 5:54
rightly so good job family. So the falafel of my hometown was from Mediterranean imports. Okay, you have been to Matthew did I get falafel? What
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:04
did I get? When we went to Mediterranean? We all
Molly 6:06
had the same thing which was the vegetarian platter. Okay, just sort of a maze. A platter ish. It had falafel. It had falafel. I believe in the Palestinian style. I think that the man who owned Mediterranean imports might have been Palestinian. Oh my god. If he is he has passed away. Now if he's not Palestinian, I am going to be in really big trouble sure, because I'm messing this up. Anyway. I believe they were done in the Palestinian style. They were deliciously crisp little balls. They were served with a tahini sauce. And and then always some pickled turnips on the side. There was always a Taboola situation. I know that we could have gotten them in sandwiches there but we never did. And I loved taking the plastic fork that would come with the vegetarian platter. And using the wimpy little tines of the plastic fork to stab into this delicious crispy ball. Of course, it was always like, who's gonna win the fork or the falafel was spoiler alert. Who
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:13
won? You know, I
Molly 7:14
think it was 5050 over time.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:16
Molly, I have good news. I have I'm reading the obituary of a tea for FIA Sol, the founder of Mediterranean imports. Yes. Who was Palestinian? He moved to Oklahoma in 1975. The year of my birth. Yep.
Molly 7:28
Ah, wonderful. Thank you. Thank you and rest in peace, a TIF or our TIF as my parents pronounced it. Matthew, where does your memory lane begin? Or where would you like to begin it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:40
So I definitely don't remember what was my first falafel it was probably at all Amir restaurant in downtown Portland would be my guests, which is a long running Middle Eastern restaurant in Portland that my parents were fans of when I was growing up. And I pretty sure I first had it in sandwich form. And for some reason, even though like falafel Falafel sandwich would have been the kind of thing as a kid where I would have been really suspicious of like, which condiments are on there. And could they be creamy? And like, you know, could this could this be like a problem for me? I always enjoyed
Molly 8:15
it. So what you would have it with the usual sauces on it? Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:20
absolutely. Bravo. And it was never a kid who is afraid of vegetables. So like the fact that it was like packed with vegetables. I had no problem with that.
Molly 8:27
I think that the first time that falafel became like, really exciting to me or became like a destination thing was the year that I was going to school in Paris. Of course, falafel in the Mahi is a is a really big deal. And there are of course, warring falafel empires. There's last do falafel and then the other ones. Yeah, they're pretty much all on the same street, even across the street from each other. Last year, falafel always had my allegiance. Granted, this was like 20 years ago.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:01
So is it? Is it not law do follow? No, I
Molly 9:04
believe it's lost. Okay, because I think you say that s okay in us. Because it's like the ace. Okay. Yeah. We would just refer to it as last I'm going to lie for lunch. Oh, my God, that place of such a scene. you'd wait in line. And then you would kind of move down. It was like almost like a cafeteria lead lunch line. You tell them what you want. Right and which sauces. You could get your falafel also with some fried eggplant shoved in the pita.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:38
When did I get that? I don't think I did. But I should have what
Molly 9:41
you could get it of course with the various salads. There was I believe like a green cabbage salad. Red cabbage salad. Of course there was something involving a little bit of tomato and cucumber. And then I remember I think it was at the tables. There were little things of a red and green hot sauce. Yeah. As it was a total mess, it was so delicious. And to this day, I still don't think I've had a falafel I enjoyed as much from start to finish as that one. They did such a beautiful job of layering the stuff in it so that you never had a bite that like was dry or a bite that didn't have a little bit of everything in it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:23
That is so important. Like Laurie and I were just talking about this because she recently got a falafel where everything in it was very good, but it was not constructed well and so every bite was like all falafel and then we got to like a whole section that was just kind of all cabbage and then more falafel at the end just like you it's got to be well distributed.
Molly 10:41
Yeah, yeah. Hey, did you ever go to his Aina in Seattle? Or? Yeah, you did?
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:45
Yeah. When I was working at Sturla tub, I used to go there for lunch often. Like it was one of my favorite lunch place. I think there falafel is so good. Like it's for them like the falafel balls themselves are good. But also they have like a really great like, kind of fully stuffed arrangement of like salads and sauces and vegetables and pickles and stuff. And as
Molly 11:06
I recall, they don't use what I think of as like a typical pita they almost use a kind of like, thicker flatbread type thing.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:13
I have a story about that. Yeah, because it's not closed at the bottom. And so this is a messy sandwich. And one time I was eating it in the lunch room at work and dripped it onto someone's Expensive Jacket. And that's the most expensive falafel I've ever had because I paid for the dry cleaning.
Molly 11:30
Oh, wow. Oh, Matthew, that's
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:33
thankfully I guess I've the dry cleaning was successful or the person was too polite to say otherwise.
Molly 11:39
Oh my god. I used to go to Ximena often when I worked downtown to I would go to Yeah, there was the one on First Avenue right like Yeah, but like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:52
the first one I went to noise now has been closed for years.
Molly 11:56
There was one yeah, like I think north of Pike Place Market. Right, right. Yeah, but that wasn't there. Also one in Pioneer Square for time. I remember when my mom came to visit Seattle at one point when I was like still very newly living here taking her design I being like, this stuff is really good. Like, it's as good as I've had, you know, anywhere, whatever. Yeah. Do you ever get falafel anywhere now?
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:19
Okay. So is the is the Halawa falafel trucks still happening in? I don't know. Yeah, I don't I don't know if they're doing the okay view schedule. Let's let's have a segment where I like try and find this food truck. Anyway, the if you if you if you run across the whole lava falafel truck in Seattle, it's very good. I haven't had it in a while. But that would be one of my top picks for sure.
Molly 12:43
The guy who cuts my hair used to be like just he used to be on Alaskan way in the like Prudential building. I used to sometimes Park on First Avenue and was often near Mediterranean mix. Sure. For so yeah, the place that I have gone most often and most recently for falafel in Seattle is Mediterranean mix and no complaints. I don't feel like it is exceptional. But it always scratches that itch.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:14
So I got two more this is this very Memory Lane heavy episode people people tune in because they want to just list off a bunch of different falafel places that we've eaten at. But, so yeah, I'll just do one more that when I was first dating wife for the show, Laurie, I learned that she was a huge fan of an A like long departed now Middle Eastern chain in Portland called garbanzos and that she had been introduced to falafel when her sister came back from her first year at Mills College and said, I've learned about this new food that you've got to try. It's called falafel. Let's go to this place in Portland it gets. They went to garbanzos. And Laurie had falafel for the first time and loved it. And then she took me to garbanzos like when we had been dating for a fairly short time, I think
Molly 14:03
and how was it? Are you not going to say oh, it
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:06
was it was great. Oh, no, I loved it.
Molly 14:08
Excellent. Ah, what's all leading you to the trough of good things? That's rice since 1995?
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:16
Yes, that's correct.
Molly 14:18
Yes. No, yes. Okay. Well, Matthew, before our guest joins us why don't we say just a few things about falafel please. What
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:26
is falafel?
Molly 14:27
Oh, right. I'm so glad you asked. So, most of what I'm going to be telling you Matthew is from Wikipedia as usual. Some of it is from our guests today. So we'll get to that in just a second. But basically, as we've just been discussing, falafel is a deep fried ball or Patty shaped fritter. It's of Arab origin. And it shows up as a street food throughout the Middle East and in fact, all over the world. hugely popular with vegetarians. It's often eaten in a rap sandwich, or as a part of like a maze a plate so like So an appetizer plate you know we should we go here who
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:03
which who which individual person invented falafel and when
Molly 15:08
you do so many people would love to get to the bottom of that Matthew the origin of falafel is quite controversial. It likely originated in Egypt but there aren't it doesn't seem to be that there are a lot of records here it may go back as far as like the pharaohs okay, but the earliest written references According to Wikipedia, the earliest written references to falafel in Egyptian sources date to the 1800s
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:37
make sense because like deep frying is a relatively new thing like I think a society has to get to like a certain like modern level of wealth before they can say let's let's just throw a ton of oil in this pot and like fry a few things and then probably throw it away.
Molly 15:53
Yeah, and I mean it seems unlikely that that that's how oil would have been treated in the days of the pharaohs I bet oil was probably too expensive to be used.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:03
Yeah, I mean such a polity. So they would go to Costco Of course.
Molly 16:08
Right? That's right. The the term falafel Of course, refers to both the like deep fried ball or patty and also to really the sandwich in which a lot of people encounter it. Here's another controversial thing. Whether or not you make it with ground fava beans or ground chickpea is in both cases, the legume is not cooked, it's merely soaked, which Yeah. Interested to talk more about a little bit. They're typically served with a sauce for dipping or if they're in a wrap the sauce might be drizzled on top. So maybe a tahini sauce a garlic sauce, sometimes hummus, other common accompaniments or pickled vegetables hot sauce salads made from crunchy bright things. Onions often I think Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, our guest today is from Lebanon. Do you notice how I'm really drawing out the reveal on who our guest is? Yeah, our guests family is of Lebanese origin, I should say. So she's going to be talking to us primarily about about authentic Lebanese falafel. But in Egypt, the base is usually fava beans. Okay. And then apparently, as the dish was, like exported or migrated eastward through the Levant, chickpeas began to replace or join the fava beans. So in Palestine, primarily chickpeas, ditto for Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and most of the rest of the world.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:40
I don't know whether I've ever had the Egyptian version made with dried fava beans, do you? I don't, I don't think I ever I feel like now I want to do a comparison. We're recording remotely today because that's the easiest way to do it with a guest. But let's pretend that if we were together, I would be serving you like a platter with two different kinds of falafel that I made myself lovingly at home. Ah, wow, that would be amazing. And let's also pretend that that's what I'm going to eat for lunch as soon as we're done.
Molly 18:07
The last thing I want to say about like some controversy surrounding the origins of falafel and how it should be made and who gets to make it and claim it as their own. I feel that we should absolutely acknowledge that Israel has decided that falafel is its national dish. Sure. And it has appropriated the Palestinian chickpea version, much to the dismay of Palestinians and many other Arabs. Sure. So there we go. Hey, does Mr. entomology want to appear on the show today Mr.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:40
entomology would like to make an appearance with a bit of news.
Molly 18:45
Oh, oh dear. But I'm gonna say it has Mr. entomology I don't
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:56
is is just bought a little beach house on the Outer Banks. And he's gonna be like taking it easy for a while.
Molly 19:05
Well, the good news is is that we were taping remotely today so it doesn't matter. It
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:09
doesn't matter all but Mr. Endermologie notice like, you know the word banks means like a bunch of different things if you notice.
The the word falafel is from Arabic, it's the plural of the word for pepper. And it's borrowed from Persian, and originally probably came from the Aramaic word for like a small round thing or a peppercorn and I feel like so like the word were for like corn or pepper corn usually start out like referring to the spice and then come to me like any small thing of that size, or maybe the other way around, but there's a lot of something like that. Because like because like corned beef like it has corns of salt and that's why it's called corned beef. We don't use we don't use the word corn generally that way anymore except in some like very specific phrases. like that,
Molly 20:00
in that instance, does corn refer to the vegetable? Or does it refer to what grows on people's feet sometimes like what gets worn on not grows on people's feet?
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:13
So in the corn beef context, does that refer to like,
Molly 20:16
does it refer to like corns on your feet? Or
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:18
does what? Corn?
Molly 20:20
Corn? Corn does it it does corn?
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:27
Does the word corn mean a thing that grows on your foot? Yes, of course.
Molly 20:31
Just the word coronate its origin mean like small round thing. How do we get
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:36
small round? Yes,
Molly 20:37
it's talking about the word pepper
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:39
but pepper corn like like it's all like you know there I'm sure the reason falafel is called falafel and it's related to the word for pepper like, I don't think it's because like pepper is used in falafel although, although it is I think it's because like the word for pepper or pepper corn or corn kernel and the word for like, small round thing overlap in a lot of a lot of different languages. Okay, okay. So, like it goes deeper than that. We can go back to Egyptian Arabic, Sanskrit, but we'll leave that for a real etymology. Wait a minute, you believe that for a real etymology. You're saying this part of you're saying this right. homology isn't a real entomologist despite having an online degree from from this work at pedia words, w ORDZ. University. Yeah, having a degree from Wikipedia University. Yeah, okay. All right. But the word has been used in English since at least the 1930s.
Molly 21:36
Thank you, Mr. Falafel. My apologies.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:43
I've got big news. I now would like to be noticed, Mr. Falafel
Molly 21:49
so whenever you come on the show, we're going to introduce you as Mr. Falafel now. Damn right and we're just going to hope we're going to hope that our listeners listen to this episode and so they can follow.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:58
All right, well, let's bring in our guest All right.
You may know unit Jawad is the feelgood foodie on social media where she has almost 6 million followers. She started sharing recipes on Instagram in 2013 and has since been featured by the today show Good Morning America people Vogue and the New York Times human as Lebanese and Qatar start primarily sharing Arabic recipes. Although today her offering span many cuisines. Welcome to spilled milk Uganda.
Unknown Speaker 22:30
Hi, so good to be on the show with you guys.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:32
Yeah, you're definitely too successful to be on our show. And we appreciate you taking
Speaker 3 22:38
it all. I'm always so happy to speak to other people, especially about food.
Molly 22:44
Yeah, well, we have wanted to do a falafel episode for a very long time. And and we of course wanted to have an expert on so we are thrilled to have you with us today. And I know that the way that I'm pronouncing falafel is like a sort of American or English speaking pronunciation. Would you pronounce today's topic as it's pronounced in Lebanon?
Speaker 3 23:07
Oh, yes, absolutely. And I think honestly, even all throughout the Middle East and in the Mediterranean. People do say it in different ways. The way we say it in Lebanon is fairly often Okay. Filet felt fillet fell. Yeah, exactly. You did well, like wait, what food is that? So I sometimes I'm like falafel. Because otherwise it just sounds like such a different word altogether.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:28
Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna revert to the American pronunciation I'm sure. Absolutely. I read that you learn to cook from your mother who is Lebanese and a lot of your earliest posts. Were foods from your childhood. Did you Did your family make falafel when you were growing up? And how did you eat it when you were young?
Speaker 3 23:45
Absolutely. So yeah, my mom and my dad actually I learned mostly from my mom because my dad still lives in Africa. But my mom lives in the US and so I ended up just learning more from her but my dad is actually a brilliant cook as well and so creative in the kitchen and so both of them actually kind of have their specialties and Phillip Phil was actually more of my dad's specialty. Oh, now you just throw a bunch of things in the food processor, get it to this gorgeous green color and then fry them up and you know obviously my mom would be on the side like chopping up all the vegetables that go with it. So whenever we make filet fell it was more of this like experience of not just eating them by themselves. But you know, having the tahini sauce with it and having all the vegetables on the side and throwing it in pita and wrapping it all up and just you know, eating this like really fill it fully stuffed sandwich with like the sauce dripping down your hands. I mean, it was an experience.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:38
I was telling Molly before you came on that one of my falafel memories was eating a particularly juicy one at work in the lunchroom and dripping it on someone's expensive jacket that I then had to pay for the dry cleaning for
Speaker 3 24:50
that itself. Is that experience. Yeah, that's the authentic way to do it. You gotta have the sauce dripping.
Molly 24:55
So something that I think, well, I didn't really know prior or to watching your video on YouTube is I didn't know that the chickpeas are not cooked in falafel. And will you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 3 25:09
Yeah, absolutely. So that when it comes to using chickpeas, really, all you really need to do is hydrate them. And if you hydrate them long enough with just liquid, they'll actually double in size and they become palatable and completely safe to eat. You can actually even eat them dry, but they're just really hard on the stomach. So when they absorb all that liquid, it's almost like they're slowly getting just, you know, more soluble and just softer and easier to digest. And you actually don't need to cook them. But they do eventually get cooked when you mix them with a mixture and they get cooked as a patty, obviously that way. So there's a lot of people that will make falafel and with a shortcut of just using canned chickpeas, and that is one of my rules that you are not allowed to do.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:54
Okay, why not what happens,
Speaker 3 25:56
I have like my rules when it comes to fulfill, and there's like two of them, especially so. So what happens when you're cooking with chickpeas that are canned is that they're already cooked, they're boiled, they have a lot of moisture in them. And what happens is when you use them there, they just add so much more moisture to the paddy mixture, it's that you actually need to add flour to balance out that moisture. Without using that you actually don't need any flour. It's actually a gluten free recipe because all you need is chickpeas, onions, garlic, lots of herbs. And then you can add a little bit of baking powders just to give them some lift. By adding the flour you're turning something that is supposed to be gluten free and just supposed to be made with like beans and veggies to something that has you know, the flour in there, which is unnecessary, more dense, changes the consistency altogether and it's like becomes less airy too. So that's when I tell you I'm like and you can make it but it's like Please don't.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:50
Yeah, if you're going to be like making it from scratch anyway, like, you know, it's gonna be cheaper to use dried chickpeas and all you have to do is remember like a few hours ahead to soak them and other than that it's going to be just as easy as using can
Speaker 3 27:02
honestly it is it's just the idea of like thinking about it the day before that you have to soak them. Some people may have a hard time looking for them, but they're right there with the other beans at the grocery store. Oh yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:13
All right. So what what seasonings do you put in your falafel paste or batter
Speaker 3 27:17
so a lot of it actually doesn't even come down to too much seasoning. It's more about the herbs like the seasoning kind of play a secondary including including herbs. Yeah, yes, that the seasoning will play like a secondary role. So I use parsley and cilantro. Cilantro can be just a lot more potent. A lot of people like love hate it, you know, but it's a really important part of it and the parsley is just more mellow. We're Irby and just like just kind of balances out the cilantro in there. So I do put more pricey than cilantro but it gives it this gorgeous green color that's iconic. Inside of the filet filet, I'm going to use onions and garlic. And then when it comes to seasoning, really I keep it to salt pepper and then I use cumin and coriander which is a dried cilantro. So really just exaggerating that like coriander flavor and both the fresh of it and then the powdered version of it
Molly 28:08
and your patties are such a gorgeous emerald green inside from all those fresher Yes,
Speaker 3 28:13
it's all the herbs that really just give it this like gorgeous color. And one thing that we always did growing up to is that we use cumin for sweets, I have this like anti bloating, I don't know how true it is like back in the day medicinal properties of Cumin is supposed to be really good for anti bloating. So anytime we have something like chickpeas that could do that or vulgar or things like that, that can kind of be heavy on the stomach. We just throw cumin in there. So the cumin does add a lot of amazing flavor to it's actually my favorite spice ever. i It's like my number one spice or seasoning to use and but in this case, too. It actually is supposed to kind of combat all the chickpea in this recipe that can cause some discomfort in your shirt.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:56
Now I'm thinking I want to like Challenge Challenge Molly like after after we're done like figure out what our favorite spices are is cumin. Yeah, yeah, Cumin is gotta mean right up there for me for sure. Yeah, I noticed that you have a special tool for shaping your falafel patties? Will you tell us about that tool? And is is the patty shaped falafel typical of the Lebanese style? Or is it just like a handy shortcut they use in your kitchen? You know,
Speaker 3 29:22
I think it is also I used to see like, you know, if you're like in the streets of Lebanon and you're ordering a fresh fulfill from somewhere, you'll see them kind of like when they're making it. They're just it's, it's a way to make it go so much faster. It's kind of like an ice cream scoop. But it's like you scoop it flat it and then like drop it into the oil immediately. So it creates, you know, similar shapes for all of them. They're there. They're not as like a cookie ball though. They're more flat and if you want them to be flat because what happens is they'll kind of rise in the middle as a as a baking powder gets activated and then the oil and just kind of does that so yeah, I used to kind of see them doing that and I remember When I decided to, and then my dad never actually had a tool, he was just like, she can throw him in the room and the oil. You know, they have like no sensitivities in their hands. They're like, touched the oil. And but I remember, I wanted to make it easier for the home cook. And this tool is like $10 on Amazon. And I was like, I seen them use this in professional places. And I have to I have to get a similar one. And I have to actually use it. And now I just Yeah, it makes it so much faster to scoop and release into the oil.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:28
Yeah, it looks sort of like a like an espresso tamper. Molly does. But it's skipping chanting falafel patties. Yeah, it does use that. Yeah, we can we can link to that tool in the show notes. Yeah,
Speaker 3 30:39
I think it's fun. And it makes you feel like Oh, I'm making like something different. You know. And I always say to when I just, you know, I end up sometimes collecting so many like one job tools, and they're just like they're fun to have. But this is one where I feel like you're making 36 pieces of falafel. It's a nice one to have. Sure. A little bit faster.
Molly 30:59
So falafel is typically deep fried. But I know that you recently posted this spring and airfryer version of your recipe. Matthew and I. So we have encountered from a number of guests talking about air frying Matthew and I don't have air fryers yet yet. And I'm really curious. So you're a recipe developer? Is there anything you've tried cooking in an air fryer? That really didn't work? Like what is it best for? In your opinion?
Speaker 3 31:28
Yeah, that's a really good question, actually. So I'm trying to think of things that I think I've tried baking in it. Because I mean, it's supposed to basically be like a small oven. And I feel that it dries out the goods. Too much where like you lose a little bit of moisture. I mean, you can make cookies in it. I have tried a few and I don't have any recipes yet on my website for any kind of big goals that I'm like, Yes, I would prefer that you make this in the airfryer than in the oven. I don't know that it saves time. Or it's it's a better texture or structure. So I haven't done anything like that. I've also done popcorn in the airfryer. That is 100% doable, but annoying. It's one of those because I'm like, Okay, well, if you live in a dorm, and all you have is an air fryer, what else can you do? And you know, I have a lot of college students that will follow me and they're like, they like how easy my recipes are and how approachable and you know, somebody was like, can you make popcorn? And I'm like, can you and so I tried. And what happens is, you know, even when you lined it up, like stuff falls and you have to shake it and transfer it. And you know, for somebody that doesn't have a stove or maybe doesn't have a microwave, I think that it works, but it's just annoying. It's one of those things that yeah, you could do it, you know, but one of the coolest and there's so many things that I always tell people, yeah, you could probably just do it in the oven. But there's, you know, the idea of using less oil than the idea of doing some things faster, like chicken wings is one of those words like wow, you're using so much less fat than you normally would use. And you get this crisp factor that can take twice as long in the oven. I just feel like there's some things that actually are just better in the airfryer. And there's other things like pasta chips, which went viral a couple years ago that you can't replicate it
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:12
for missing every food trend,
Molly 33:14
I better pasta,
Speaker 3 33:17
pasta chips. So I didn't come up with this. But I actually like made a trend for some reason, there had been so many creators making pasta chips. And then so I made a video I was like, finally tried the viral pasta chips. And they're worth all the hype. And I just started the video with like crunching into this like so such an ale you'd never think that pasta can have this like airy like consistency, almost like a potato chip. It was phenomenal. And that video got like 25 million views or something crazy like that trended everywhere. And all these other creators before me were like, Hey, I already made them like I know you did. Like there's something about this crunch of just and so a lot of people were like that's it. That's the reason I need an air fryer is the pasta chips, because I kept telling people Yeah, try it in the oven and even I tried it but there's just something about it that it couldn't replicate. I think it's the shaking and how much air it gets all around the little tiny pasta chips that happens in the airfryer that you just could not replicate in the oven. Okay, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:15
was gonna ask more about this, but we'll just watch the video and link to the video. Okay,
Speaker 3 34:21
not to veer from like Yeah, from plastic chips to fillet so
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:25
let's Yeah, let's turn it let's turn it back around. So go back to we I learned that like in Egypt, falafel was made with with thought dried fava beans rather than chickpeas and like they're like areas where like the two traditions kind of overlap. Is it always chickpeas and Lebanon? Or is it
Speaker 3 34:42
no actually it's it's actually a combination of chickpeas and fava beans. Okay, Lebanon. Yeah, and I know that in Egypt, Egypt is more fava beans, chickpeas and in Lebanon. It's both but and I think it's actually so much better to have it with fava beans. But there's just those are actually harder to find. really hard to find dried fava beans because I usually try to make my recipes just the more approachable Lebanese version is like it's as authentic as you can get without, like, you know, and my dad tasted it. He's like, Yeah, it's totally fine. I make it all the time without fava beans and it just less complicated. It's one less being dehydrated. Right. And it does work. But yeah, we do it with fava beans, a Lebanon as well.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:20
Interesting. Okay,
Molly 35:21
so do you still have friends and family there? I know your parents were from there. And you grew up in Africa? Do you still have friends and family in Lebanon? And do you get back there often?
Speaker 3 35:31
Yes, I do. Actually my we actually have a house in the city and big roots. And my dad is actually building a house in the village kind of like his his house that he wants for his great grandchildren to grow up in and just having the family and so we have a lot of cousins there still a lot of family. My brother actually lived there for a while and now he moved to Jordan for work. But he's still in the Middle East. And the last time I was there was for my brother's wedding and 2019 and so we do still visit often. My kids haven't visited though, and I really need to take them over there and really have them taste the true authentic foods. You know, from the streets of Lebanon,
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:06
aside from falafel, what what other things like Do your kids have to taste in Lebanon went the first time you go,
Speaker 3 36:13
yes, well, shawarma sandwiches. I think that's one where you know the chicken that's like, you know, stacked on a spit kind of like euros, shawarma sandwich, and there are just so iconic and so delicious. They're made with only, I mean, the shore might actually recipe like everybody makes a little bit differently. But their sandwiches, it's just bread, garlic pizza, and then they put fries inside of it. And so my kids are obsessed with fries and the idea of fries and a sandwich and I told them about it. They're just like, What am I have to taste it? Like, the way they put the fries in it? Like it's just so good. Yeah. So that's one where I have to Yeah, they have to definitely taste that one. And all the desserts there too. Just amazing. You know, the BOK Lavon you know, the true Arabic ice cream that has like, it's made with like, astah and things like it's just yeah, those are. You're making me hungry now.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:04
This sounds really good. Yeah, my favorite thing is when someone comes off the show, it says like, you know, take your trip back to my home country. And here's all the home cooking at street food we're gonna eat. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much for being with us. Where can people find you online? Is there is there anything else you'd like our listeners to know, I hear you might be working on a cookbook?
Speaker 3 37:22
Yes, absolutely. So I am feelgood foodie everywhere on social media on Instagram, and YouTube and Twitter and Tiktok and all the things and you know, I share a lot of great videos with a lot of fun hacks and tips and tricks. And I try to infuse a lot of my Mediterranean and Lebanese background into so many of the recipes that I do. So you will see a lot of feta cheese, a lot of lemon, mint and some of the recipes and, you know, truly like fresh and vibrant meals is what I'm all about. And that's kind of the basis of the cookbook that I'm working on as well. That's slated to come out next spring, it's going to be all about you know, everyday healthy recipes that are infused with Mediterranean flavor. And I think it's gonna be something that's like so special. It's just like taking you know, everyday you know, chicken dinner and how do you add like pomegranate molasses to it. It's just like it's, you know, expand the flavor exponentially. So it's something that I'm super proud of and poured my heart and soul into it for the last two years. And looking forward to having it you know, the hands of my followers next year. Yeah.
Molly 38:21
Oh, I can't wait to see it. Congratulations.
Unknown Speaker 38:23
Thank you so much. Super excited about it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:26
All right. Well, you haven't hit your wad. Thanks again for being on spilled milk. This has been a delight.
Speaker 3 38:29
Awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you learned a couple fun facts about falafel and I hope you make it with real dry.
Molly 38:38
Yes. Okay. All right. Okay, that was great. I'm so glad that you've not joined us.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:46
Me too. Is there anything else we want to say about about falafel now now that we are certified experts? I'm still
Molly 38:52
sort of digesting the fact that you don't have to cook the legumes. I just like of course they ultimately get cooked when you fried fried right? But somehow I just didn't know that. I think I thought that you would wind up with this weird gravelly stuff if you didn't cook chickpeas anyway, goes to show you how little I knew about falafel so thank you. You've not Yeah, I mean
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:15
there are things made with chickpea flour that that's that comes from uncooked chickpeas right? Yeah, but chickpea flour is ground finer than that's true. Anyway. Yeah, we should. We should make this like I mean, is it clear to all the listeners that neither Molly or I had ever made falafel from scratch? I made it from the box. You know, they made it from a box here. Near East falafel mix. Yeah. Was this recently? No, but like I certainly remember how it goes. It's fine. Yeah, yeah. Is it is it anywhere near as good as like homemade made with fresh herbs? No, no,
Molly 39:47
no. I'm realizing that a lot of the falafel I've had has been more on the like brown interior end of the spectrum, maybe with flecks of green. But humans are so good. just I can't emphasize it enough. We're going to link to her YouTube video of her making falafel. I really want to make her recipe it has I think more fresh herbs than I have ever had in falafel before. And that seems right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:14
All right, shall we get segmented like like an orange?
Molly 40:17
Let's get segmented. Matthew, we have some spilled mail today.
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:27
We sure do. And it comes from listener Lauren who writes Hi hosts Matthew and Molly. My name is Lauren and I've loved spilled milk for many years. I'm always disappointed when the mailbag is empty. So I'm hoping to provide some spilled mail for you today. Well, listener Lauren, mission accomplished. My friends and I love to do something we call whip arounds, which is when we all go around in a circle answering the same question for example, but we thought whip arounds were going to be oh yeah, my friends like that. We like the other do some whip arounds.
Molly 40:54
Yeah, I was like, I don't think that's what they're called.
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:58
Okay, go ahead. For example, the whip round might be if you could create a national holiday to celebrate one thing, what would that thing be? And answers might include things like sugary cereal, the aging process, or backyard birds. I have a slightly different and food related whip around I'd love to ask both of you. If you had to choose between eating only sweet foods, or only savory foods for the rest of your life, which would you choose? One of my partner and I have considered this question. We've made certain allowances. For example, if you choose sweet, you could theoretically eat something like a chocolate covered pretzel, even though there's salt in there, too. Thanks for making such a wonderful show. And I hope you're both doing well. warmly. Lauren.
Molly 41:32
Okay, I love this question. I was thinking about it this morning while I ate breakfast. And despite the fact that I have a real sweet tooth. I'm gonna go savory because I think that if you don't have access to sweet foods, I think that you could crave them, but I don't think that you would ultimately miss them that much. Whereas if you didn't have savory foods, I mean, I feel like it would just be nauseating after a while to UAC for sure. tasted sweet.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:00
Yeah, I'm gonna say I'm gonna give the same answer for the same reason. Because like, also, like, I'm not one of these people's like, you know, dessert. I could take it or leave it. No, no, I love I love my chocolate. But if I had to give up pizza, I don't think so
Molly 42:14
well, and who wants to eat? I mean, if you're eating sweet things all day long. God, I think you're gonna get tired of it so fast.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:22
Yeah. And like, I mean, either, like the sweet the sweet. One would be kind of more interesting in a way because you'd really in order to like not lose your mind with with boredom, you would have to really explore the world of sweets, in a way I think. I think you and I and probably most people are like, somewhat more like conservative when it comes to dessert than savory foods. Like, you know, I feel like you know that there's still like a whole world of Japanese sweets that I haven't really dove into yet. Even though like I've eaten like a enormous variety of savory foods in Japan, just because like, you know, then we get to dessert. Like I want ice cream.
Molly 42:59
Yeah, I feel that my my palate for desserts is limited more so than my palate for savory things
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:06
right. So that would be interesting. So let's do it. Let's eat nothing but sweet hoods for the next two years.
Molly 43:11
Wow, this whip around really, really took a turn and we got whipped around. It's really got whipped around.
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:16
Okay, so that was a great question loud. Now let's do as a whip around the question that that came up during our interview with you know, which is what is your favorite spice? Oh, no.
Molly 43:26
What is your favorite spice? Can I say salt? Is salt spice? No. Oh, God.
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:33
This is hard, right? Because I think I'm going to say cumin also. Which, which feels like cheating.
Molly 43:39
I mean, I could say cumin too. But you know, I really? Like, I don't reach for it. Like I'm not like, ooh, this needs a little cumin. Like I don't that's not how that's not my relationship to cumin. I mean, like I say in recipe I
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:54
honestly like the spice and I don't even know if this would be considered a spice but I think so that I reach for most often is crushed red pepper flakes.
Molly 44:03
I was gonna say red pepper flakes could Yeah, good choice. Adjacent to that something that I thought of is any sort of like interesting like little ground pepper. Like if you were you know, feeling fancy peamount Desplat the Basque ground pepper. Or my friend Ben brought me this really lovely like ground like dried pepper blend. And it's meant for like sprinkling on things like as a finishing. I really love so I don't know if I've told you like I'm kind of mildly grossed out by hard boiled eggs. Often
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:40
I'm majorly grossed out by Hard boiled. One of my least favorite things. I know that's weird.
Molly 44:46
I can't just bite into them. I do like to eat them sometimes. But what I do is I cut them into quarters. And I sprinkle them with salt and with Piemont desperate and I really love ache that it's like a pepper but it has a lot of flavor to it like more than black pepper to me. Yeah, that actually makes a hard boiled egg palatable to me. Yeah, I'd
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:11
still like I would only try that if if like it was on a day or something, but I recognize that I'm the weirdo here. Yeah, like I have this this set 20s like pepper flakes that are like fried and then and then ground from from Bala market. Yeah, I think yes to. Those are two those are the best for making chili oil, but also like you can put them in a stir fry. You can sprinkle them. They're super versatile.
Molly 45:35
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay, thank you so much, Lauren. All right. Barley.
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:39
Do you have a now but wow,
Molly 45:41
I do. I do so. So this is a dish that I think shows up in Japanese home cooking all the time. But I encountered it through Eric Kim, who writes recipes for the New York Times has a wonderful cookbook of Korean American if you do a Google search or follow the link on our show notes. It's called Eric Kim's tuna mayo rice bowl. And basically you take canned tuna, he calls for oil packed. I don't usually keep oil packed around. I usually just keep a good cat like good cans of water packed. You drain your cans of tuna. You break it up, you add a little bit of mayonnaise, soy sauce and sesame oil. And you eat that over like a Japanese style rice like Calrose or something like that. With seaweed or for a cocktail day. It is so delicious and so easy. Oh my god, it's fantastic.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:44
This is a dish that is like close enough to American tuna salad that I have a problem with it.
Molly 46:50
Oh, really?
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:51
I was like the mayonnaise. Yeah, I would try it. I think it has a pretty feel so provincial. This episode.
Molly 47:00
This episode is relentlessly provincial. No, but
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:05
the falafel part wasn't. But everything else.
Molly 47:07
Well are our Oh, that's true knowledge of falafel. Fine. No, but the toasted sesame oil really changes it. I mean, even though you're only using a tiny bit. It is so like redolent with toasted sesame oil. I got it's so good. And with the flavor of like nice, warm, freshly cooked Calrose rice. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:31
Okay, I want to make this for me and I'll eat it someday.
Molly 47:35
Yes. Are you going to actually eat it? Or are you just going to kind of move it around in your mouth and then push the bowl away? Like my spouse does when they say well you make this and I will try it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:47
Oh, I don't want to commit to one or the other path.
Molly 47:51
And my my spouse doesn't like cucumbers. And cucumbers were like the only vegetable we had in the house last night. And so I was like okay, I'm gonna make a cucumber salad just like sliced cucumber, with some of my usual Ninigret. And anyway, Ash does this thing when they don't like something where they keep it at the front of their mouth and kind of like chew on it just with their front teeth while making a weird face.
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:16
Are they gonna be upset?
Molly 48:17
You talked about this on the show. They are not okay. No ash knows.
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:22
They know what they did they know what they've done.
Molly 48:25
Anyway. Yes, Matthew, I will make for you this tuna mayo rice bowl. We will also link to it in the show notes. It is featured on New York Times cooking but I used one of my subscriber
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:37
gift links. Wow. And it's your gift to the listeners. It's my gift to
Molly 48:42
the listeners guys. Click on it in our show notes and you can get this recipe for free.
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:48
Our producer is Abby, sir Catella. Molly has a wonderful newsletter called I've got a feeling that I'm always I'm so excited when it shows up in my inbox. And you can subscribe at Molly weisenberg.substack.com
Molly 49:02
You can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:05
and you can hang out with other spilled milk listeners at everything spilled milk.reddit.com Hopefully by the time you hear this Reddit has done the right thing and stopped locking out third party app developers. This is a thing that's going on.
Molly 49:18
Oh well, thank you for listening to spilled milk the show that's I was gonna say the show that's like crispy on the outside and and and green on the inside.
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:32
We really need to go to the doctor.
Molly 49:35
I'm Molly Weissenberg. I'm Matthew
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:37
Amster-Burton.
I'm Matthew.
Molly 49:46
And I'm Molly.
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:47
Oh, I thought I'd ambushed you in your eye. All right, let's start. Oh,
Molly 49:49
no, I'm always paying attention even when I'm not looking at you. I have eyes in my face.
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:56
Wow. Cool.
Molly 50:00
It's pretty awesome usually
Matthew Amster-Burton 50:01
whereas I mean I am Eyes Without a Face
Molly 50:04
yeah