Cheers to the 3 martini lunch! Listen as we (barely) sip cold ones, talk Twilight and google stuff. We are negative vermouth as we meet sparkly boys and gumshoes before learning Molly's beverage fear and embracing the glass glass. Unfortunately, not even HOTPOTS himself can help us like this drink.
The Life and Death of the Martini Glass by Lizzie Munro
Matthew's Now but Wow! - Chloe and the Kaishao Boys, by Mae Coyiuto
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Molly 0:00
Hi. I'm Matthew and I'm Molly and
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:05
this is spilled milk, the show where we'd cook something delicious or stir something delicious. Drink it all. And you can't have That's right.
Molly 0:13
Today we are talking about martinis. You
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:16
all have been asking for it. It's the most popular drink out there right now in 2012.
Molly 0:22
This and this episode was suggested by us. Yeah, during
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:25
some other episode,
Molly 0:27
even though neither of us drinks martinis. We're going to today
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:31
we may have an actual three Martini lunch right before your eyes or ears.
Molly 0:35
Wow. Okay, Matthew, have you ever ordered a martini ever
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:40
in my life? I was once with a friend when I was in like my early 20s, who ordered a martini, maybe even like late teens. And like, Let me have a sip. And I'm like, This is so bad.
Molly 0:50
I have never ordered a martini.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:54
I want to order to Manhattan at a wedding. Oh, yeah, I
Molly 0:57
mean, that's a classic like wedding thing or be like the groom's drink and the bride's drink would be something like that
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:04
explains why the bartender was like, Well, you're a real man, aren't you?
Molly 1:09
Yeah, that's right. That's right. I think that the first one oh, this is turning out to be our Manhattan show. Okay, because the first wedding that I remember attending as like an like an adult who could drink alcohol didn't like a flower girl. Right? It had like that classic like gender binary cocktail thing. The groom strength is the man having the bride string because the Cosmo this was like 1998 That sounds right. Or maybe 1999 I think I had just turned 20 to carry and Biggs wedding. I did. I did. Yeah. No, it was it was my cousin Jason's wedding. And I had the hots like big time for his best man. Nice guy named Tim. Who had kind of like sad eyes. As you know, I like were you the what do you call it chief bridesmaid? Well, now I wasn't even in the wedding. I wasn't even in the wedding. And I was like, 21 years old. And this guy was like 29. And that is an age gap that I just feel like can't really be breached. No, I mean, like, I mean, definitely, there's some dudes who would breach it, but I was like, in like a one night stand context. Yeah, no, I felt like that guy. He was like, Get away from me. Yeah, sure. But this is our martini episode. Yeah. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:21
let's go down Martini memory lane. I guess we already started. Alright, so my only other Martini memory lane that I remember is that one time I remember my friend Liza telling me very excitedly like texting me to say that. Her husband Dan had surprised her with a dirty martini. And this was like a delightful thing. And I didn't know what it was. I looked it up and I was like, it's like a like a ambush rather than a surprise. But she liked it.
Molly 2:47
I think that the the only time I've ever really considered ordering a martini was in New Orleans at lunch at Commander's Palace. Where they have a 75 or no a 25 cent 20. Sorry, Martini. Yes. I think it's a 25 cent Martini.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:02
Why? People like us will talk about it. Yeah, I
Molly 3:05
think so. I think so. I mean, I'm this was in 2016. Yeah, I had met up with my friend Ben in New Orleans. Ben is definitely a martini drinker. And anyway, we went to Commander's Palace. I think I had an a grainy or something, which was a $6 half hearted Negroni? Because I just don't want to drink hard liquors at lunchtime, despite the fact that that's what we're doing today. Sure.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:30
Yeah. No. Now, the fact that you're that you're Ben, that your friend Ben is a martini drinker. And he's like, less than 100 years old. I feel like this would be a thing that would start ironically, and then you grow to like it.
Molly 3:42
I think Ben is 100 years old on the inside. I mean, let's be honest. Ben is an opera singer and an opera are branded. Ben is trained as an opera singer, and he's an opera director. Okay, so he is 100 years old. All right, on the inside that that makes sense. Yeah. My mom also had a so again, Tony Negroni, yeah, had a dirty martini phase, like a couple years ago. And I remember she bought some sort of like dirty martini. dirty stuff. Like I don't know if it was like vermouth that came already doctored with the olive juice. I don't know if she's listening to this, like no shade mom, as the kids say, but I think that she she saw it like advertised somewhere. And she thought that sounds exciting. And she had sort of her dirty martini summer.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:26
I've definitely had like a thing where I got some bottle and like we hadn't had a phase of that thing until it was used up and then forgot about it. Yeah, I
Molly 4:34
think that's what she did. But I do remember there was an evening she showed up at my house with the Dirty Martini stuff and was very excited to make me a dirty martini and she made me one. And I really thought I was gonna like it because I like the idea of the olive brine. And I felt like I kind of suffered through it just in solidarity,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:53
but we're gonna do it again today. And I might even try a sip like Okay, so we're not a yucking of yums kind No, no, no, but like, I feel like the whole like, like, aesthetically, I love the idea of a martini. As an actual thing to drink. I feel like it's probably not for me, but I haven't tried it since I was probably 20. So
Molly 5:12
the person who I think makes martinis look best is not James Bond, James Bond. Okay, the food writer, Alicia Kennedy. Okay, who lives in Puerto Rico? She's originally from New York lives in Puerto Rico. I believe her husband is a former bartender or maybe still as a bartender. The two of you get
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:32
out of the game. What is your what's your bartender? Are they cute dragging you back
Molly 5:36
through the two of them? They live really well. Anyway, she loves martinis so much. I believe she may have one tattooed like on her finger
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:47
that would make a very good tattoo. No, right
Molly 5:48
just like a line drawing of the glass. Which I know we're going to talk more about in a minute. But anyway, whenever she posts a photo on Instagram of a martini, it always looks perfect. And I think some of it is that she's in Puerto Rico and everything there looks slightly dewy all the time because it's hot. However, oh my gosh, it always looks so cold so like perfectly like sparkling somehow I'm not not the liquid itself but just like the lighter the whole the it's basically like when Edward Cullen goes into the light and begins sharing it Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's like that except with a martini
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:30
more Team Edward, which in this this is a metaphor for like, totally different drink. Oh, okay, I have to mention another drink again, because this is going to drive me nuts to the whole episode if we don't think of it when I said like, I got a bottle and used it up and then never made that cocktail again. The thing I was thinking of was this cocktail called the Harvard cooler. Which is made with that expensive Apple brand deal. What is that stuff?
Molly 6:54
Or cognac? No Cognac is made from shuraim
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:57
Yeah, so it's it's French. It's not Apple Jack. And it's not coke.
Molly 7:02
Oh, it is.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:06
This is yeah, this is that moment. Listeners where you're all yell scream. You gotta take profits.
Molly 7:11
It's on the tip of my tongue. No, shut up for me. Maybe I'll come up with it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:16
We're gonna Okay.
Molly 7:20
I'm gonna get this. I feel like it ends in ARD. Oh.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:24
Armagnac. No, that's that's also Oh, Nick is
Molly 7:27
prunes or plums or Yeah, okay. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:31
Armagnac may also be grapes. Is it? Oh, no, this this shows but off the rails. Okay, so we need to find out what is Armagnac? Okay, what is that Apple stuff called? Okay. French apple. Brandy, Colorado. Okay, well, it it has a D in it. Yeah. Okay. And what is oh, what is a Berman Yaks? It's a distinctive kind of brandy. It's made from grapes. I think I think he's got fruit just like prune. Armagnac is a very common pairing. Oh, and I know that because I'm a very fancy guy.
Molly 8:05
So disappointed in myself that I couldn't come up with Calvin. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:08
I have to talk about what other drink but this one is not a quiz. Did you know that there's a new official drink of the summer in the Amster-Burton house. It is a non alcoholic drink and it's called the Boston cooler and drink from Michigan as you can tell by the name. And it is an ice cream soda made with ginger ale blended with vanilla ice cream and it rules.
Molly 8:31
Wow, that sounds really good. I have been so so you know, it's kind of weird that we're doing this episode today. Anything
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:37
to put off having to drink more tea.
Molly 8:40
It's kind of weird that we're doing this episode today. Not only because neither of us drinks martinis, but also because I decided to see like how long I could go without drinking. Oh, and so. So anyway, I let's see if we're recording this on. What is it? August 7. Okay, let's see. I had a drink on July 21. And okay, and not since then.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:07
I don't think we're gonna drink a large I don't think so either.
Molly 9:09
So I'm fine with it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:10
Okay, so should we talk about a little bit of definitions in history and then start stirring up some some cold cold ones? Yeah. Real treat your cold one. That's
Molly 9:24
That's what Bella calls Edward Cullen.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:32
Lazy cold.
Molly 9:33
Yeah. Do you remember what
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:35
I did? Already? Twice. I read the first book and saw the first video. You watched the movie twice recently? Like, Is he is he cold? It is isn't that he's cold.
Molly 9:43
He's cold. He goes to adjust the stereo. He's driving the car and she goes to like touch his hand or something. And she's like, Oh, you're so cold. And then she goes home and like, looks up a book about like Quilly legends or something about like the history of like vampires. He's in Washington State or whatever and learns that vampires are called the cold ones.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:09
That's great. I thought your grades for the car radio Cold. Cold, like, cold this is what like yeah, like one hit wonders that have been completely forgotten by history still being played on cold FM listened to by sparkly sparkly boys. Sparkly boys. Yeah, they're good. Still too bad. All the way. So. So Molly, you may be wondering what is a march? Oh, man, it's been so long. We haven't been in the studio for like a month because like you were out of town, and then I got COVID. And
Molly 10:58
yeah, so good. Really good to be back. Oh, so Matthew made me a grilled cheese. So I wouldn't be drinking on an empty stomach. And you asked how I wanted it cut if I wanted it cut. Yeah. And I told you to surprise me. It's like a kind of like, zigzag down the middle. So I don't know. Like, it was more like, yeah, what? like Tetris. Yeah, you turned it into like a Lego or something. It was pretty great. Thanks.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:24
Okay. I enjoyed I enjoyed doing that. But next time, it's going to be even more toothy. Okay. Cool. Okay. So, first of all, we're not going to get into espresso martinis and like drinks that are served in martini glasses, but don't have any ingredients in common with the original Martini. Okay, because like we would be here all day. Are we
Molly 11:41
going to be talking about the Martinez? Oh, yeah, we are. Yeah, great.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:45
Okay, so a martini is a cocktail consisting of gin or more recently vodka, Vermouth and an all of our lemon twist and sometimes bitters. Okay, obviously, it is served in a martini glass.
Molly 11:56
And I want to say to that we're not really going to be we're not going to be tasting and I also don't think we're going to be talking about a vodka martini.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:03
Yeah, I mean, I did just mention it. But other than that, yeah, I think that was the kind of smash that yeah, okay, great. Okay, so let's talk about a little bit history. So as you might expect for a famous cocktail, a lot of people claim to have invented it or know the real story, and we're never going to know for sure that's right. We know that there were precursors by the late 1800s and that the modern Martini was definitely popular in the roaring 20s That checks out
Molly 12:26
I can picture it like you know, your flapper dress your martini. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:31
maybe like one in each hand. Maybe like one between your toes. Wow. Yeah, I imagined like the roaring 20s I feel like they must have roared harder than we've ever roared since
Molly 12:43
that's true, otherwise, they wouldn't be called the roaring 20s
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:46
It might have and that like the most accepted stories that it developed from a cocktail called the Martinez from Martinez, California, made with gin sweet vermouth, Mira Tino and orange bitters. And by 1888, there was a bartender's manual by Harry Johnson, which I think is a funny name. That's true. And it had a martini cocktail recipe containing gin, vermouth, Curacao, bitters, and quote, gum syrup.
Molly 13:12
What's the gum sir?
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:13
Right. That's what I said. So it's obviously it's simple syrup with gum Arabic or gum arabic. I'm not sure how to pronounce it for a silky texture. So what's gum arabic? Gum Arabic is the hardened sap of the acacia tree used as an emulsifier.
Molly 13:28
I know I've seen it in a bunch of food things. I mean, does this might show up in ice cream or guar? Gum? Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:34
there's a lot of there's a lot of gums. Okay. Okay, did gum gum arabic is one of them. I have
Molly 13:39
a feeling that there are bartenders out there who are like making their syrup. For sure.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:45
Yes. Yeah. Called. They're called gum boys. That's true. And it's not a gendered term. So they're called gumboots. Is that it's like a kind of boot. term sheet. They're called gum shoes. Obviously, they only come out from behind the bar to solve crimes. cold cases, the kind of cases you're you're about a gold F. Okay, okay. Yeah. So then in 1907 bartender's guide by William Boothby. contained a recipe for a quote, dry martini which contain gin, vermouth, orange bitters, and lemon and at Olive lemon peel, and at all
Molly 14:21
I think I like the sound of that. But the orange bitter it sounds.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:24
Yeah, it sounds good. I was thinking about I didn't get orange bitters. I don't have any so we're not going to try that today. But as we'll hear later, hotpots husband of the producer of the show Brandon
Molly 14:41
hotpot, the producers sorry. Anyway, what about
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:51
casting producer? So good that by the time you hear this, it's gonna sound like I pronounced it correct.
Molly 15:02
Okay, what about hotpot?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:04
He's a fan of orange bitters in his martini.
Molly 15:06
Oh, did you know that or did you like interview him for this? This episode?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:12
Abby put it on the agenda. Oh, were down, down, down down there,
Molly 15:17
down there. Are you happy?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:21
Okay, so, however, the dry martini recipe from William Booth B's book in 1907, contained equal parts of gin and vermouth, so not what we would call a dry martini today.
Molly 15:32
Okay. Do you know what else happened in 1907?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:35
Yeah, I think you're about to tell me Oklahoma statehood?
Oh, okay. Great. Yeah. It was that when the land rush was or
Molly 15:41
no, that was early earlier. earlier. I think that was 1889.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:45
What's the what's the official cocktail of the state of Oklahoma? I know there is one because recently on Jeopardy some contest and said that he was trying to make all of the 50 state cocktails. I don't know what what
Molly 15:59
they were there were like state cocktails. I mean, I'm all about like state flowers. State birds. State sales. I'm
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:06
sorry, your favorite bird outside.
Molly 16:08
You texted me that I should be aware that the menace Steller's Jay Yes. Outside. They do live outside.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:16
Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Molly 16:18
Okay, so are like there's got to be like a lot of controversies around what is the right way to do a martini or like
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:25
so you have talked about some controversies and variations and then let's then let's try some before we we go into talking about the martini glass and other stuff. Okay. As I was writing up this this agenda, I completely had the the Martini like, like rise and fall of popularity, like way off because I sort of imagined that they got popular in the 80s. And like Gordon Gekko would drink them and then like, decline in popularity in the 90s. Oh, no. They were popular. Like, like we said in the 20s, like, continue to be popular through the 50s started to decline in the 60s and became pretty unpopular by the early 70s.
Molly 17:03
Okay, and then when did they come back? Ah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:06
they've never come back to that extent. Okay. Like, it's still it's today. It's not not a very popular drink order. Yeah, like a classic Martini. That's true. Yeah. So So I do remember people in the 90s like joking about how everyone hated vermouth and like cool people drank the driest martinis. Like you just like say the word vermouth near the glass. Yeah,
Molly 17:28
like wave the closed bottle over the glass.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:31
And then I remember reading because because I was like reading a ton of food writing and then a river reading artists like actually, vermouth is tasty and you should make a classic Martini so there's like, you know, backlash to the backlash and kind of don't really care. Okay, so let's turn to Wikipedia for for some definitions and variations. So Wikipedia says quote, a dry martini is made with little to no vermouth ordering a martini extra dry will result in even less or no verb. Like negative sounds like if you order an extra drive RTV you get some how they suck vermouth without
Molly 18:04
like, is there like vermouth infused into the substance of the glass? And they like, right, draw it out? Like squeeze it extra.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:13
You know, there's vermouth and anti vermouth and if you've accidentally shaped it together the standard ratio is two to one gen two vermouth.
Molly 18:23
Okay, wait, hold on. Should we go ahead and make one of these? Yeah, let's
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:26
let's make this here. And I'm kind of excited to try it. I
Molly 18:30
think excited to basically cool. Yes. Okay. Matthew, I'm a little bit upset that you didn't put the gin in the freezer when you got home, because we're going to be starting with room temperature, alcohol. I don't think it makes that much difference. But I think you're going to melt the ice more and get more water in the drink. But you know what, that's cool, because that's probably what you and I want anyway, you know, my friend Ben, who is a martini man. He also is a fan of, so he keeps vodka in the freezer. And he the only time in my life that I have had bought like a vodka shot was at Ben's house. Yeah, it was vodka straight from the freezer. And I do think I squeezed a tiny bit of lemon into mine. And then I sipped it and it was actually delicious. And for a second, I didn't know who I was, because that is absolutely not something I would ordinarily be into. Have you been on shots? No, I've never done a shot either. Ever.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:35
And maybe I've even like Trump one shot of something.
Molly 19:39
Did you? Did you sip it? Yeah, yeah, I would totally sip it. I'm like, scared of shots. I mean vaccines to like, I just I just No, no, no, no, but I just don't like needles. I'm fine with what's in the
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:53
cake. No, I
Molly 19:54
don't like needles.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:55
Oh, yeah, I don't eat it. Okay, so we got a bunch of supplies here. Got it. Beefeater gin which was the second favorite gin in a serious eats round up. The first one was too expensive. Okay? We've got Dolan brand or Dolan brand vermouth recommended by Abby. Yep. We've got greenhous with pimentos. Okay, we've got a lemon.
Molly 20:18
And how did you choose olives with pimentos?
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:21
That seems to be when I was when I was researching that seemed to be the classic choice for Martini within all of it. Okay, yeah. Okay cool. Like when I imagine like, what does a martini with an olive look like? I imagined the little pimento guy.
Molly 20:33
Okay. Okay, cool. Okay, I'm really, as I said, when I arrived here and saw the bottle of Beefeater. I'm very pleased that you got Beefeater. I do think it's just sort of classic like London dry
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:44
gin. That's good. I was usually you make fun of the things I buy for the show. Oh, no.
Molly 20:48
And I also Hey, well done Abby telling him to get dough lamb because that is the kind of Vermouth I actually have at home. Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:57
I'm just doing like two ounces and of Jan and one ounce of Vermouth. So I don't have to do math. Great. Perfect.
Molly 21:05
So we're doing a classic here. With the old standard two to one ratio. Matthew is about to stir it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:16
Yeah, my cocktail spoons in the dishwasher and I'm too lazy to wash it. So I'm just gonna call your cocktail
Molly 21:20
spoons in the dishwasher. Have you been making cocktails? I've been using it for making iced green tea. Yes. Sounds that sounds good. You know it like it smells really good. Does floral. Oh, I love the smell of gin. That smells really good. That started after Okay. And you have a Hawthorne strainer here. Yep. That's the How would you describe the Hawthorne strainer? It's
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:42
the springy boy. It's the
Molly 21:44
springy boy. Yeah, it's it's so cute. I don't even I don't have a Hawthorne strainer. And I keep meaning to get one. I feel like it's like such a basic thing to have in one's cocktail repertoire
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:55
for this like I bad aim. And then we can decide how we want to garnish. Oh, it's my first Martini. Look at that.
Molly 22:03
Oh, God, this is this looks interesting how you can like really see the viscosity of Yeah, hall or the liquor?
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:10
Yes. And it's free. It's from the GM. Okay, so are we going to put a put an olive in here?
Molly 22:16
Yeah. We got to put an olive in one and we're going to do what like a little lemon twist and another dilemma. Okay, here we go. Oh my god. I can't believe I'm gonna attempt to I almost said to do this on air. But not like anybody's gonna see how bad this lemon twist is. Okay. That's not terrible. Actually. I'm going to twist it over the glass.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:36
Okay, I feel like I have to take a picture of this because it does look pretty iconic. Oh, yeah. Oh, these look really good.
Molly 22:42
Do you think we're gonna hate these? I can see a little bit of lemon oil on the surface of the glass and that is really pleasing.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:49
I think I might like the lemon one. I don't think I'm gonna like the olive oil. Okay, can I Yeah, dig it. Can
Molly 22:55
I taste? Okay, I'm gonna smell it first. Okay. Oh, I can really smell the lemon. Oh, cheers. Cheers. I don't understand what the deal is.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:05
Okay. Oh, yeah, that lemon oil on top is very, very appealing. No, this is kind of how I remember tasting it. It tasting it when I was a kid and hating it. Yeah, this
Molly 23:14
is just like, we're terrible. Matthew. We like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:18
I feel like I don't think these ingredients go together. Which I know is a silly thing to say. I just feel like this tastes like because like I've had vermouth and enjoyed it and I've had drinks and enjoyed them.
Molly 23:30
Oh my gosh, I love gin. Yeah, hold on. Just just for just for shits and giggles Can I just taste a little bit of this gin straight? Yeah, of course. I'm just gonna drink room temperature gin out of a jigger. Haha, totally normal. Okay, I'm going to smell this.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:45
It smells great. Like I'm for sure. Gonna make it I mean tonic with this tomorrow.
Molly 23:50
That's really delicious. Yeah. And I love vermouth. I mean, I drink vermouth straight. Why do I need this? Like, I feel like this tastes like I imagined rubbing alcohol tastes. I think you put the kind of flavors together and then cancel
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:05
out. We were gonna make like several other kinds of martinis, but I think we shouldn't. I mean, I
Molly 24:10
guess I try the lemon one again. Yeah, sure. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:12
mean, I guess if we made one with less vermouth, it's going to just pretty much taste like gin, and it's going to be better. So I guess I guess we're dry martini drinkers. Yeah, this is this is puzzling.
Molly 24:24
I just I also don't like the flavor of the lemon oil. Okay. I feel like I'm drinking like furniture polish. Yeah, you did
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:31
put in kind of a big ass big honkin lemon lemon twist there.
Molly 24:38
Feel personally attacked? That would make it better. No, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:41
agree. I would have done the same. I'm just perplexed.
Molly 24:43
What What? What are we missing?
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:47
Like, do you want to try the Dirty Martini where you add a little bit of olive brine to this one?
Molly 24:52
Sure. Okay. Once you just take like a spoonful. Yeah, I mean, people who really love martinis don't want A dirty martini because it doesn't taste. Right. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:05
and I don't want on because I don't want all of juice. I don't like olives. I know this is a person failing.
Molly 25:11
No, that is
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:14
okay. Well sometimes sometimes we're surprised at the results of a tasting on the show and sometimes we're not. I,
Molly 25:19
I think of myself as odd. It's so weird. So here's the thing. I like really boozy cocktails.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:27
I mean, I like I usually don't, but like I like an old fashioned. That's a really boozy cocktail.
Molly 25:32
I mean, I love like a Negroni. I love a Manhattan. I love all these. Very like booze for word cocktails. I will gladly drink bourbon straight.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:44
Red one bourbon, one scotch and one beer.
Molly 25:50
Tonic vermouth. I don't I don't get this. It feels like it takes the fragrance of both of these main ingredients. And like they cancel each other out.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:01
Well, it to me, it's more like they smash into each other and explode. It's terrible. But if you like it?
Molly 26:10
That's right. We weren't supposed to yuck anybody's yum.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:13
I don't know. Like if Yeah, if anyone was really excited to hear our martini episode, because they're a big Martini fan.
Molly 26:18
I mean, I think I think what you can laugh at us What's boring about an episode where we really don't like what we're enjoying. By enjoying eating or drinking. Is that like, There's nothing interesting about not liking something. I've never thought about that before. That is absolutely true. But this is very this is like we have nothing interesting to say about that. I was I was
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:40
thinking back to when, yesterday for no reason about how I used to write restaurant reviews. And like, occasionally I would write a negative review. And if I could go back in time, like I wouldn't have written any negative reviews. It would have just like gone somewhere else.
Molly 26:54
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. And but when it comes to like this cocktail situation, like there's nothing interesting for us to say, when we don't like something. It's however,
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:05
we have a lot of other stuff. I mean, like martinis are still interesting, and we have a lot of stuff to talk about there, including some pretty funny stuff.
Molly 27:13
Well, there's a part of me that wishes we had somebody on here who really loves martinis, but hotpots but I think then we would like just sit around and be like, really?
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:24
What's it like?
Let's talk more about variations and controversy.
Molly 27:36
Okay, so what's a Gibson because I feel like I confuse a Gibson with a gimlet with a Collins with a totally
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:42
totally was thinking gimlet like like which one's a Gibson which one's a gimlet? A Gibson is a martini with a cocktail onion instead of an olive and my grandfather used to drink these.
Molly 27:54
This is a real old man to do even even more than other old bands. Yes,
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:57
he was he was a mean old alcoholic and he loved it Gibson. Okay. Which, again, like I would I'm not saying that anybody who likes a Gibson is it'd be an old alcoholic.
Molly 28:10
No. Okay. Matthew is only speaking about his own family,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:13
right? Okay, a perfect martini uses equal parts dry and sweet vermouth. I almost want to try that I don't have sweet for me.
Molly 28:21
Very interested in that. I mean, I just love vermouth, so I don't know.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:26
We did the dirty martini with all of Brian I'm not going to taste it. Vodka Martini has vodka. James Bond's favorite drink was the Vesper Martini, which was introduced in the book Casino Royale and it contains gin vodka, and Keno Lulay, which was replaced with Lily Blanc in 1986. And Ian Fleming later said that he personally found the drink unpalatable. See Ian Fleming, the author of the James Bond books.
Molly 28:51
Oh, okay. Okay. All right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:55
I mean, like, there's no reason like, if you can't, you might think of
Molly 28:58
like, you can have a character who does things you don't like?
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:02
No, I think if you're an author, you're like, implicitly signing off on everything your character would say. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
Molly 29:09
So what's the deal with a martini glass? Because I think they're ugly. Really? Yeah, I don't own any because I don't like them. Now.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:17
I'm going to be with this. What the thing you just said is about to happen because I think they're awesome. I don't own any but I think they look cool. And so now I'm going to be the person being like, how could you not like
Molly 29:27
I think my thing is that most martini glasses that I encounter out in the world are in places where people are really into like decorative martini glass. Oh, sure. I feel like maybe this is because I never go into a bar and order a martini maybe there I would encounter like a beautiful crystal martini glass that would feel really delicate and really depend on the bar but I hate all the like decorative shit that somehow just people love to make martini glasses that are like either huge or shorter A color or that? Yeah, like
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:02
I was imagining like a really like classic like art deco like like, you know, spare modernist I don't know
Molly 30:09
that I've seen actually now that I think about it many martini glasses that felt light in the way of like a crystal glass.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:17
And I'm sure they're out there. It's a heavier thing. Yeah, I don't like a glass glass. Okay, so I was you don't like uh, yeah. Thanks for not letting me I was about to let that go by. You prefer a martini glass made of wood?
Molly 30:36
No, I was actually thinking Silver. Silver goblin. No, I learned from MFK Fisher. That one never drinks a martini from silver. She says this in her essay. border land.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:51
Are you serious?
Molly 30:52
I'm serious.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:53
Why not? She uses physical Silver's mildly. She
Molly 30:56
says like, it would be like drinking a martini from silver. Like it isn't done like that kind of vibe.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:03
Okay, yeah, it sounds pretty cool. Honestly, I wonder
Molly 31:07
if it gives off like a sort of, like silvery taste. You know, that metal taste.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:13
I was very pleased to learn that the martini glass comes with possibly the stupidest, apocryphal origin story of any food related item that I've ever heard. And we've had some really silly ones. So, according to Wikipedia, a popular story says the martini glass was invented during Prohibition so that in the case of a raid on the speakeasy, the larger room allowed the drink to be easily disposed of. What is that? Great,
Molly 31:38
that's so dumb. It's also interesting. I would never think of it as a large rim or a way of describing a martini glasses having a large rim. Yeah, but
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:46
I would like it's like a Yeah, that's like, a wide diameter. Yeah, for for the amount of fluid that it contains. And it is
Molly 31:55
really interesting the way that stuff like pours over a lip like that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:01
Elaborate? Well, no, I
Molly 32:03
mean, I think about think about like a shampoo champagne
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:06
shampoo flute.
Molly 32:09
of champagne flute. And the way when you hold it to your mouth, it directs the liquid in a small portion of the rim. It directs it to come out needs to drop. Nobody know what I mean. Where's the martini glass? I do get it. Like, look how wide the part that's about to flow out. Oh, I see what I mean. When it comes to the rim, to pour over the edge, there's a real like with
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:40
too, I see what you're saying. Now, I often find like if I am really thirsty and I like pour myself a glass of water and like you like whoa, I like need to drink some water like often Alger I get so fast. They're like triples out of the sides of my mouth are just super sexy.
Molly 32:54
I think that's what Am I cheating? Yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:57
Everyone looks sexy.
Molly 32:58
Because truly like in the the width of the liquid that's coming out of it is like mouth wide.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:05
Right? Yeah, I see. In fact, the martini glass data 1925 when it was introduced at the Paris exhibition, but it was originally a modernist champagne coupe. Oh, I love a champagne coupe. Yeah. So it's I mean, you can see how it could be related. And according to Wikipedia, quote, the martini glass has somewhat fallen out of favor in modern times due to its tendency to spill drinks, and the coop is sometimes used instead.
Molly 33:29
Also, I would say that I think in a lot of places, martini glasses are being used to serve dessert. Yes, yeah. So they've all been like taken over by the pastry chef. Yeah, the
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:38
pastries have snuck behind the bar and stole them in the dead of night. That's right. And then the bartender had to come out from behind the bar, the gumshoe and solve the case. So this led me to a wonderful article that will link to from the magazine punch called The Life and Death of the martini glass by Lizzie Monroe. And I'm going to quote from it a couple of times, quote, there are a few symbols in the drink world more powerful, more recognizable, or more American than the martini glass and angular monument to deco design. Its characteristic V shaped bowl and fine stem have long represented that most iconic of drinks, so much so that there's arguably no other image that better communicates the very notion of the cocktail. That is true, right? That's really true. There is also no glass board despised by today's bartenders. And he interviews a bunch of bartenders who like yeah, they fall over all the time. It sucks. But the actual Martini has been out of favor for a long time too. And like I said, it seemed to me like something Gordon Gekko would drink but I was wrong. Lizzie Monroe writes, following it's nearly two decades long decline, the Martini would fall out of vogue entirely by the early 70s. In 1973, Esquire derided as, quote, a bitter, medicinal tasting beverage that represented everything from phony bourgeois values and social snobbery to jaded alcoholism and latent masochism. I don't quite know what it means, but wow, wow. But that does sound like something Esquire magazine would say. It sure does.
Molly 35:03
And I have to agree that it is a I don't know if I'd say it's bitter but it is a medicinal tasting beverage and I love a medicinal tasting. Yeah, but this to me tastes just like on the word I'm looking for is unemployed. Alcohol.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:17
Okay, yeah,
Molly 35:18
I know what I really mean. Yeah, okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:20
and I was even more delighted to find there is an entire Wikipedia page devoted to the concept of the three Martini lunch to tell boy am I gonna read a bunch from this am I ready storytime? Quote. In the United States the three Martini lunch or noon time three Martini a term I've never heard is a leisurely indulgent lunch enjoyed by business people or lawyers. It is named from the common belief that many people in the above mentioned professions have enough leisure time and wherewithal to consume more than one Martini during the workday. The three Martini lunch became particularly identified in popular culture with Madison Avenue advertising executives in the 1960s and 70s, who supposedly became more creative after such lunchtime libations. The term is sometimes used in political debates on tax deductibility of business meals in the US Oh my god. The three Martini lunch still quoting here is no longer common practice for several reasons, including the implementation of fitness for duty programs by numerous companies that decrease tolerance of alcohol use a general decrease in available leisure time for business executives, and an increase in the size of the RTD which made me feel so bad for business executives.
Molly 36:26
Oh, less time sad, so sad.
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:30
And finally, quote Jimmy Carter condemned the practice during the 1976 presidential campaign, Carter portrayed it as part of the unfairness of the nation's tax laws claiming that the working class was subsidizing the $50 Martini lunch. A rich businessman could write off this type of lunch as a business expense, thereby reducing the cost by his effective tax rate. His opponent Gerald Ford in 1978 speech the National Restaurant Association responded with quote, the three Martini lunch is the epitome of American efficiency. Where else can you get an earful a belly full and a snoot full at the same time? Good joke, huh?
Molly 37:08
What's his wife Betty Ford? Yeah, this checks out. Yep. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:12
Okay. So, Gerald Ford, let's get him on the show.
Molly 37:16
Let's get him on the show. Okay. So, wow, I am fascinated by this.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:23
Oh, so here's hotpots is I actually do want to share hotpots is Martini restaurants. For an hour or two sir Abby
Molly 37:30
producer, writes in that she really likes the martinis that hotpots makes, and here is his recipe or his preferred formula. 2.5 ounces London dry gin, half ounce dry vermouth, dola brand, a dash of orange bitters, and a lemon peel. You put the gin and vermouth in a mixing glass full of ice stir until frosty strain into a chilled glass Express lemon peel over the glass and use as our garnish.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:04
I wish I think you did express the letter. I did I expressed it. Yeah, that. I mean yeah, it's still it's gonna we're still not gonna like it. But
Molly 38:14
yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm a little disappointed.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:17
I think there are some Martini drinkers among our listeners. And I would like to hear from them so we can like get your side of the story contacted Spilt Milk podcast.com Yeah, okay, great. I mean, I'm not sure what your side of the story would be other than I like the taste of it, but
Molly 38:31
but I'm interested in that because yeah, I don't know. I really like strong alcohol but this Yep, is not for me. Okay, do we have any segments we do we have some spilled mail from listener Erica.
Listener Erica says Are we still sharing about themed food nights, I meant to write in about our weekly nights sooner but life happened. So here we are. Anyway, I wanted to share about our weekly night which has no formal name, but it's often referred to as kids cooking night. It started because my 12 year old daughter who has always loved helping in the kitchen, realize that even though she has lots of kitchen helping experience she really didn't have a lot of interesting meals she could make from start to finish on her own and wanted to change that. So now she gets at least one night each week, generally Friday night, where she plans shops for and cooks a meal from start to finish with as little help from adults as possible. She will look through all of our cookbooks scour the internet for recipes she wants to try out. And sometimes it's just learning how to make some family favorites with recipes that live in our brains. She will make a shopping list and on Friday after school we go shopping for what she needs. Shopping has turned into many lessons on how to select produce and come up with on the fly substitutions for ingredients. Cooking also incorporates many lessons, especially on time management but also on improved Bring her knife skills, managing multiple burners, etc. It's definitely helped her build up a lot of skills and it's fun. Her favorite meal to make solo is currently black bean and zucchini tacos, which she takes credit for creating. This led me to wonder how you got both kids of the show. Well, December and June anyway. involved in cooking and what they enjoy making.
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:22
Yeah, what is Gilbert enjoy make?
Molly 40:24
Gilbert is our dog. Gilbert enjoys eating literally literally anything. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:30
this is a great question. This
Molly 40:31
is such a good question. And I absolutely love that part of Eric has families like tradition involves the shopping. Yes, I noticed that. That is really that's an extra step that I had not thought about.
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:45
And like can be like, you know, if you like grocery shopping, which I do can be like the most fun part. So my answer is so like, my kid December is like currently in college, although currently home from college and like doesn't cook dinner that often. When they do they will typically make like mapo tofu or like one of their favorites. They often will make themselves like a lunch from scratch, like fried rice or egg rice, which is a couple of fried eggs on on steamed rice. And sometimes we'll make fried rice for all of us. But that's that's about it. Like I I don't like to be pushy about about things. And so like I have not tried to like push them to cook more. I mostly started cooking when I was in my 20s
Molly 41:25
Yeah, yeah, I would say I also did not. My interest in cooking came along pretty organically when I was about 17. And I was much more interested in baking than in cooking truly. So yeah, so it's interesting because there are certain things that Jun is really good at making and always really like happy and game to make like scrambled eggs for instance. Oh, June, June also, maybe this doesn't even count, but I think it does. June is always up for making tuna salad. Okay, totally counts. But here is one thing that I have observed that I do want to find a way to help Joon work on without being nagged. Yeah, it's really hard not to be pushy, when you're apparently hard, especially when you are someone.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:16
And I don't mean that that like there's anything like inherently wrong with being pushy. It just doesn't work.
Molly 42:21
Well. I think one thing that's really tricky for me is I'm really good at being a home cook. Yeah. And I am often cooking in a way that is, I think, really streamlined and sort of as quick and and obstacle free as I can do it. Sure. Like for instance, okay, June has been wanting to make this pound cake from the book more than cake, which I mentioned as an album. Wow, a number of weeks ago, Jun has been wanting to make this vanilla bean pound cake from that book. And I kept sort of like just putting it off or being like, oh, yeah, we could do that next week. So finally, one day, I really kind of forced my own hand by like just taking the bulk out. And I left the butter out on the counter to soften and left out the eggs that we were going to need. And so like it was all out there. And I was sort of committing myself and June to doing it. And that was a week ago. And they're all still sitting on but they did sit there for like three days. But no, here's the thing that I find really tricky. So June is a really detail oriented kid, of course, about the things that Jun is interested in, I'm sure a human trait, right. But like, I was blown away by June's like inability to thoroughly read the instructions. Yeah, sure. Like, and I know that this is so normal for a 10 year old. But I get so frustrated. Like I said to June like June said to me so the recipe started by you like grease a loaf pan and then put some turbinado sugar in there. And the recipe called for I think a quarter cup of turbinado sugar. And you put two tablespoons in the loaf pan and kind of dust the loaf pan with it. And then the remaining two tablespoons go on top of the batter before the cake, right. So I got the turbinado sugar down for them. And I was like, Okay, so, you know, here's your measuring stuff, whatever gene starts to get out the quarter cup, and I was like, ah, be sure to read the recipe really closely about what you do with that turbinado sugar and June was like, Oh, well, I put it in the loaf pan. And I was like how much? And June was like a quarter cup? And I was like no read the recipe again. And June was like I did and I was like no, no, you'd clearly didn't I mean, I'm extending they're like telling my child like well no, you did not read the recipe like it was not a very like suave parenting moment. And I so I think some of this has made me feel a little bit less than encouraging about June like taking on an entire dinner project or whatever. No, I totally get because it requires so much from me and I know that that's like what parenting is I know but but it's oh no, but it's hard. Anyway, but June is always into Mmm baked goods. Joon is always really well, like willing to help. And I just, I need to work on my, like my patience.
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:11
Yeah, no, I think I had like very much the same experience, you know, I think you have to sort of, like have faith that, that you're like setting a good example, even if your kid doesn't do that much cooking, because like, you know, my mom was an excellent home cook. And like, you know, I didn't make dinner at home, like hardly ever as a kid, but I saw her do it, and I would occasionally make something. And then, you know, in my 20s, I was living, you know, with a wife, the show, Laurie, and we, and I, like, you know, learn to cook over the course of a few years.
Molly 45:45
Well, and I find, I think that I do take some solace in the fact that I know that June really enjoys the food that I cook, and I think enjoys it in many ways, like more than like getting takeout or going out,
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:57
oh, this is sort of a sneak preview of next week's episode. And therefore,
Molly 46:01
I do feel like hopefully, even if June doesn't come away from their childhood, like having learned to make entire meals. I think that June because June loves food and loves to eat and loves to like June loves nothing more than poring over cookbooks.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:20
Yeah, yeah. So it was at that age. Absolutely. And so
Molly 46:24
I think between that and the fact that June, I think values the results of home cooking, I hope it means that at a certain point, Jun will take that enthusiasm they have and begin to apply it to cultivating a home cooking practice of their own.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:41
Yeah, no, but it's hard. Like when like they're like eager, you know, enthusiastic about it, and you don't want to stand in their way. But you also know that the actual process of like, helping them through getting a meal on the table is gonna be exhausting for you. Like, there's no easy answer to that.
Molly 46:57
Yeah, I'd be curious to see like, I don't know how, what does Erica, like, what do you tell yourself so that you can like, get through all those questions.
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:06
That's a good that is an excellent.
Molly 47:08
I mean, then again, like your child is is 12 I've got a 10 year old and there isn't that's a big. Yes. So maybe by the time June is 12 Maybe there'll be making dinners to ride a horse. June can ride a horse. Yeah, that's like true. Yeah, Erica, we'd
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:23
like to see your kid right. Maybe.
Molly 47:27
Anyway, that was a great question. Thank you, Erica. That was really thought provoking. Yeah, Matthew, do you have an album Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:33
I do.
But it is a why a book by maker Yuto. And it's called Chloe and the Chi shout boys. And it is a fun YA novel that I'm really enjoying set in Manila. And Chloe, the main character is planning to go to America for college to study animation. But her dad really wants her to stay in the Philippines. So he sets her up he and like other relatives set her up on a series of terrible dates to try and get her to meet like the boy that will give you so great that they'll keep her from leaving home. And obviously this does not really work as planned.
Molly 48:09
Does she meet the girl? That's so great. It'll keep her from leaving home. That
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:12
would be an interest. I haven't finished the book but so it's possible. I don't think so. But I think I think she does like a boy but. But like it like there's tons of food in the book. I don't think I've read a white book set in the Philippines before and we're no good reason and I want to read more and would love recommendations. And there's lots of like really believable, like, adolescent late adolescent dialogue in the book. I was just in Portland and hanging out with Lori's brother and his family and he has three kids who are range range in age from like, high school high school to middle school, okay, and it was so fun hanging out with them because they are just like zigging each other nonstop and like obviously absolutely love each other and also are just like up at each other's face all the time. Like oh, but you yesterday you said and like just like they just have like a way of a way of speaking and like being in each other's face. That is that is so classic. Really enjoyed getting to see it for a night and then not having to deal with it the next day.
Molly 49:21
You know, I bet our producer Abby sercotel would know a few things about sibling stuff. Our producer Annie producer, producer Abbey has many sisters. Brother brothers Yeah, brothers too.
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:36
Yeah, so as a British you're getting
Molly 49:39
let us know Do you did you see each other?
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:42
There's gotta be seeing and yeah, my brothers died we would sing you did the song. We say we zoomed and wheezing and we zagged Molly's got a got a newsletter on substack called I've got a feeling that's wonderful and it's just had an incredible series about how does it queer couple have a baby yeah. A True Story you're really going to enjoy. That's Molly weisenberg.substack.com.
Molly 50:04
Matthew makes music his band is called early to the airport. And you can find them everywhere you stream music
Matthew Amster-Burton 50:12
weirdly like we seem to be getting like slightly more popular. Well, that's not weird like like our listenership. I figured I figured our listenership with like quickly like dropped to zero after after like all of our friends listened to it once but people are still listening to it. Oh, that's so cool. So yeah, net like hanging out with other people and talk about like, why what's wrong with us for not liking martinis at everything spilled? milk.reddit.com And until next time, you've been listening to cold FM up next, it's wild wild west by escape club. Your favorite song for the ad? Okay,
Molly 50:49
I'm so impressed that you remember that band name?
Matthew Amster-Burton 50:51
I don't know how I pulled I remember the song live in in the 90s
Molly 50:57
the wild wild west
Matthew Amster-Burton 50:58
something like that head head for the night because it was the 80s heading for the 90s then in the wild wild west Wild Wild West.
Molly 51:07
I'm Molly Weissenberg.
Matthew Amster-Burton 51:09
And I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
Molly 51:15
But I think we're gonna split the classic into two different classes and put like lemon in one and turkey with like half an olive in the other since is that half size
Matthew Amster-Burton 51:24
Yeah, that's no that would be so gross. Via half olive it's like what's so gross about that?
Molly 51:30
I don't know it feels like like half of is it gonna like leach too much Ali myosin too much all of cheers. Abby is listening to this whole this whole thing her
Matthew Amster-Burton 51:40
whole thing? Like I think I might like the lemon one maybe but like the whole idea of like putting it all in a drink skeeves me beyond the beyond normal levels of skeeve okay,
Molly 51:50
well what if we start the show? Okay, okay.