We get off to a rocky start as we treat a fever and wish listeners a Happy American Thanksgiving! We praise, then eventually blame, Producer Abby as we taste this bitter, sweet, medicinal bark soda and reveal some unpopular confessions. After stripping thyme we then debate the best uses of cock.
Liquid Intelligence by Dave Arnold
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Molly 0:00
Hi. I'm Molly. And I'm Matthew and this is spilled milk the show where we I almost said the show where you cook something delicious. And then I was like it's about you. It's the show where we cook something delicious eat at all and you can't have any
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:20
and today we are talking about tonic water.
Molly 0:23
But first we want to say Happy American Thanksgiving for those who celebrate Yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:28
Cuz that's, that's today if you're listening to that, if you're listening to the show today comes
river river upside down foods. It's upside down brains. Okay, you're listening to the show on the day. The song today by the Smashing Pumpkins came out. You have a time.
Molly 0:56
Really, if you're listening to this today, that is November 23 2023. Happy American Thanksgiving. Yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:03
And if you're not, I hope you had a wonderful celebration. If If, indeed that was.
Molly 1:13
So anyway, today we're talking about tonic water. I don't know why it just showed up. I like it. So I said, Let's do it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:22
Yeah, I think I put it on there. Because we recently had some gin and gins and tonics and our in our corporate retreat.
Molly 1:28
We did. We did, which was actually back in August. Yeah. But it was so fun that I just keep replaying the memories, and it feels like yesterday. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, we did have gin and tonics, and they were delicious. I otherwise hadn't had them in a very long time. So bravo to you or to producer Abby, whoever suggested it, or Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:47
I think it was producer Abbey, so why don't we go down? Memory Lane.
Molly 1:51
Okay. So, yeah, gin and tonics. I think they were one of the first mixed drinks that I ever liked. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:00
I think I think maybe me too. Yeah.
Molly 2:02
I've never been a vodka tonic person. I don't I don't dislike vodka. But gin and tonic has always had a place in my heart. I don't tend to order it much, but it's delicious. I like mine with a lot of lime. Me too. And then I do remember so at a certain point I discovered that I just really like tonic water period. Like I love the flavor of tonic while I
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:25
had tonic water long before I ever had a gin into Oh really? Yeah.
Molly 2:29
Okay. I don't think I did. I think that I thought tonic water was going to be like scary the way that I thought alcohol would taste scary and I was a kid.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:39
I think so. I mean, it is bitter like in a way other sodas are not certainly and I feel like it's like teenage or the show December and like had tonic water when they were little and we're like no this is this is too bitter like I don't like it we can pretty quickly came around. Yeah,
Molly 2:53
it's I mean it's also quite sweet which which we'll talk about I either on an airplane I almost always get like seltzer water. But if I want something with more flavor, I love to get tonic water. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:05
yeah. So my memory lane I also definitely had tonic water when I was a kid. I don't know in what context this would have been. But I think I always liked it. I was I'm I'm a non taster and that probably has something to do with the fact that I've always been fine with bitter flavors. And honestly, I think maybe producer Abbey introduced me to gin and tonics like i i think I'm sure I had one at some point before meeting producer Abbey, but like, until fairly recently, I was like a very nervous cocktail order because I was afraid I would like order something like silly and the bartender would laugh at me or something they they like didn't have the stuff to make. And like I didn't really even know what I liked. And so like and it was great learning probably from producer Abby, like you know, you can order a gin and tonic anywhere. You know, it has two ingredients which they will definitely have and it's always tasty.
Molly 3:58
That's great advice. Yeah, really good advice. Okay, so let's talk about what tonic water is because I feel like I still don't really understand
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:06
okay, and should we start like pouring some or do we wait, I don't want to wait till the very end to taste it although of course there will be a lot of burping. So start drinking.
Molly 4:14
I mean, I think I think for most people when they picture tonic water they probably picture like one of the sort of big plastic bottles. Yeah, let's start with that like a Canada Dry because that's
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:28
for sure what I would have had as a kid and it's not bad. Bless.
Molly 4:36
My headphones fell off. I had a cold last week and I feel like I've still got like a post nasal drip thing going on. And I'm sneezing. Well, thanks for sharing. Sorry, Matthew. I'm really sorry.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:48
So tonic water in its modern form, is basically a lemon lime soda, like a Sprite or seven up. But with the addition of quinine which makes it better
Molly 5:00
Now that you say lemon lime soda I keep I think of tonic water is having a little bit of a smell the way that soda like any kind of soda has a smell, but I'm not catching it or you know, yeah, I think so now that you say lemon lime soda, the first thing I get is like, like a seven up flavor followed by bitterness. And there's
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:17
there may be more ingredients than that. And then when we talk about the premium brands that we'll be trying several varieties of we'll get into that, but what is quinine now? Okay, so quinine is what makes tonic water tonic water and the original tonic water was literally just soda and quinine, and it is a compound found in the bark of the cinchona tree, which is native to the Andean forests of South America. And indigenous people in that area have used cinchona bark as a malaria treatment since prehistoric times. Ah, okay, okay, okay. And cinchona is also known as the fever tree. More on that later, okay. cinchona fish analysis is the National Tree of Peru, and quinine was extracted and purified from cinchona bark in the mid 20th century. So now, I think in Dave Arnold's book liquid intelligence he has like a section where he talks about like, ordering pure quinine from like a laboratory Supply Company and making his own tonic water. We did not do that for the episode.
Molly 6:16
So quinine. So just to make sure I'm understanding this quinine is just basically a compound like a chemical compound that is naturally occurring in the bark of this huge
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:27
tree barks in general have long been like a potent source of both medicine and flavorings. And like they're, you know, there hasn't always been like a strong distinction between medicine and flavorings. Okay, but like a bark is where there are going to be a lot of compounds that the that like the tree is using, like to protect itself from predators, but because of that also have strong flavors and sometimes medicinal or poisonous quality. Yeah,
Molly 6:54
I was just thinking of like, what does it sauce perilla that it can be Yeah, yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:59
So yeah, and like, you know, also all of these things like strong flavor, poison medicine are all very related things chemically.
Molly 7:06
Okay. Is it still considered a good treatment for malaria?
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:10
In some cases, it's not it's not something that would be prescribed as like a first line treatment or preventative for for malaria. Now, just because we have like other drugs with fewer side effects. In cases where the malaria does not respond to those drugs because it's become drug resistant, then like clinicians will go back and say, Let's try why not.
Molly 7:30
Okay. Wow, cool, right? And so I have to imagine that you know, so somehow we white people went in there and somehow got this stuff
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:41
right at this out. Okay, so the history of tonic water, as you might expect, is totally tied up with conquest and colonialism. So you know, when explorers you know conquistadores reached reach South America, they were introduced to cinchona bark as a as a malaria treatment. tonic water per se originated in India among, you know, British soldiers and colonists in the early 19th century when they were like, Okay, we know we need to take quinine to prevent malaria or treat malaria. Quinine is incredibly bitter and we don't want to take it like how do we make it palatable? So they mixed it with soda water and sugar, and gin was soon involved as well.
Molly 8:24
And would they have with these British colonists in India, would they be the ones who would have brought over the cinchona tree or the bark or the So somehow it got down
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:34
to when I was trying to figure out and like, I could not figure out exactly how it got so so my my guess is, is that it's more than it gets. So I think what happened is, like, you know, as part of like, you know, post Columbian trade, like, you know, malaria was a problem in Europe in the Middle Ages. Like it's it no longer is, but it was it was a serious problem. And so, once conquerors went to South America, I was like, oh, there's a malaria treatment here. Like you know that that started to be imported into England and then I think was probably brought by the British to India. Okay, I think
Molly 9:11
okay. And I see from Wikipedia that soldiers I presume British soldiers in India were already given a gin ration so it would have been easy to make this like sweetened quinine concoction.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:22
Yes. I was curious about the phrase gin ration like do you think like, like, you know, if you join like the Army Today, do you get a gin ration? Yeah. Or like, Is it is it something more more like up to date like like mezcal
Molly 9:35
or maybe you know, maybe if you're at like some sort of, I don't know, maybe if you're based somewhere in the south, you get like a bourbon ration. Or yeah, like maybe you get a rasher of bacon.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:45
Maybe you gotta rasher bacon. Maybe if you're like in like a party army, you get like a Jager Meister ration. It's a party army. Fight for their right to birdie. You didn't even know where the joke was going into Oh yeah.
Molly 10:01
Okay, so Matthew Wait, we need to taste another tonic water.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:05
Let's let's move on to fever tree premium tonic water.
Molly 10:09
And now I understand why this is called fever tree because it's another word for cinchona tree. Right. That's right. Does malaria cause a fever? Yep. Awesome. Would this have been like the tree to combat your fever?
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:20
Yes. So it's more it's more like anti fever tree.
Molly 10:24
Okay, and so fever tree I've noticed has introduced multiple different tonic waters to the market.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:31
Yeah. So I mean, let's start with what's this one? Yeah. So so this is this is their original premium tonic water. I think it's called Indian tonic water in, in Europe, maybe. So Fevertree is a premium brand of tonic water and other mixers that is based in the UK. It was founded in 2004. It has become the largest soft drink company in the UK.
Molly 10:53
Wow. Okay, Matthew, hold on. Can I give my impressions of this one, please. This one is fuzzier than the last one. And the fizz hits like the tip of my tongue at the same time that I get the flavor, and it feels less lemon lime soda II. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:09
think they talked about using using bitter orange and other botanicals beyond just like lemon and lime oils. Yeah,
Molly 11:15
I feel like when I think back to the first one I tasted, I sort of got the like a sweet almost like viscosity of a lemon lime soda right off the bat. But this one there's something to maybe about the bitter orange and whatever. But also, I think the fizziness Yeah, and I think makes it feel less sweet.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:32
I think partly partly that it's like actually, like, you know, more fizzy like at the factory but also like I got the first one you taste it was Safeway Signature Select tonic water and like a liter plastic bottle. I feel like these liter plastic bottles always like leak leak gas. So like, like they're never going to be as fizzy as you want. Yeah, but that's what I bought because I'm
Molly 11:53
cheap. Okay, so this one, this Fevertree one. We're starting with the premium tonic water.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:57
Yeah. So this is this is like their most their their original product. And like, I feel like I you know, I almost want to like be part of like a backlash because like, this is everyone's favorite tonic water now, and it's and it's relatively expensive, but it's so good. It's really good. And like, I guess I'm totally fine with it with the Safeway or Canada Dry brand. But this is much better. It's more bitter,
Molly 12:21
it is more bitter. It's for sure. Like I'm aware of the bitter flavor lingering in my mouth after I swallow. Whereas I don't think that did with the Safeway. Like
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:28
you want to roll this around on your tongue and savor it. And you may you may be asking yourself, if I had malaria, could I drink tonic water and cure it? The answer is no. There isn't enough quinine in it to do that. That's unfortunate. So so you should go to a doctor rather than drinking soda.
Molly 12:47
Okay, good to know, so probably won't hurt. No, no. I mean, it could probably just maybe distract you from how terrible you could distract you. Yes. Okay, so I mean, I think of gin as being like a British thing is tonic water. I mean, did it originate in in the UK?
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:05
tonic water itself? Yeah. It originated in India among British soldiers. That's right. Okay. Okay. So they got their gin rash and they got their quinine ration. Okay. They got soda water, I guess.
Molly 13:16
Okay. Okay. And then the firstly commercial tonic water. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:20
the first commercial tonic water was was in the UK. That was Pitts aerated tonic water introduced in 1858. Okay. And while I was researching this, I found too late to read the book that Kew Gardens like the garden published a book about the history of tonic water in 2020. I mean, I would like to read it but probably I won't because we're gonna move on to a different topic next week.
Unknown Speaker 13:43
Okay
Molly 13:50
I see that you have a little tidbit a little fact from about the show. fleabag
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:54
Yes. Okay, so according to Wikipedia in the BBC and Amazon Prime television series fleabag fleabag and the priest enjoy candy G and T's for Marks and Spencer. The store reported a 24% increase in sales after the episodes aired love that I love to the priest and I also learned that apparently if you want a gin and tonic with both lemon and lime juice and are ordering your drink in England, you can ask for an Evans and no one seems to know where this name came from and it doesn't seem to go back further than the 21st century
Molly 14:24
Hold on. Do you think that I would ask for an Evans gin and tonic so
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:30
I I like to read a blog post blog by a bartender about exactly this and apparently either is fine. Just say an Evans like a cool bartender will know what you mean but if you say and you can also say like an average Janet so this at most dates back like 25 years or less. Yeah, like maybe just to like 2010 interesting but but no one knows why.
Molly 14:48
Okay, all right. So we're gonna taste another fever. Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:52
this is one that I have bought a couple times just when they were out of the original one. I feel like supply supply of like original fever tree Eat like over the course of the pandemic was kind of spotty. And but they often had this refreshingly light which I was skeptical of, oh god, I've looked at this and gone I am not going to be one of those people who buys diet tonic water. Right. But I don't think that's what this is. It's not I think it I think it is a less sweet tonic water. Okay, it does not have artificial sweeteners. So and I've gotten it a couple times. I thought it was good. It's less bitter. is interesting. Yeah, it's
Molly 15:26
not as good as the original. It's not as good. It's not it doesn't have as much flavor. I think if you're somebody who doesn't like bitter things, I think you would like this more.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:34
Yeah, that's been interesting. It's dealt Yeah, I still think it's more more interesting overall than it's really tasty. So also, it is. This is interesting. I don't really know what I Okay. So I think this is designed as like a less flavorful version for people who are averse to the bitterness rather than like a low sugar version because it has exactly the same calorie count as like original.
Molly 16:02
Oh, so it's not like calorically
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:05
that is what I am just now inferring. This checks out it does have a lighter flavor. Okay, yeah, this Yeah, this is not bad. I would I would not pick it over the original if the original was in stock.
Molly 16:17
Okay, I'm really glad to know what this is. And I find the marketing of it perplexing
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:21
it is perplexing because I think they also do have like a low sugar version which I have not tried
Molly 16:26
they also have now that we're talking about it I realized they have a product called like Mediterranean tonic water you may like this. Oh, okay. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:36
I don't know I looked on their website and I there was nothing on there that I found that said like this is how this is different from the regular
Molly 16:43
I purchased this one but because sometimes I like to keep these little bottle bottles of tonic water around as a like a non alcoholic drink.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:51
Oh yeah, absolutely love with a little squeeze of lime. It's great. Have you like compared the Mediterranean to the original? No. Okay. Oh, this has a motto. It's very stronger.
Molly 17:00
It has like a flower free closer.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:03
They do have Elderflower Tonic water. Okay. Okay. I feel like it has like a rosemary flavor.
Molly 17:10
I was gonna say I feel like it has like a rose flavor. It's
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:15
crazy about this one.
Molly 17:17
You know, it tastes like a drink of its own it. Yeah. I said if I were drinking, so if I were buying this just to have as a non alcoholic drink at home, I think I would like this a lot. This feels to me, like more than just tonic water.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:33
Yeah, I think so too. On the other hand, like I think like you know, because I think it's shares more of like like a you know, botanical flavor with like a gin. So I think it might work well in a gin and tonic, I'm sure it would work well in a gin and tonic. Like, I would try it. And are
Molly 17:47
all of these like roughly the same in terms of like amount of sugar, or I
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:51
think so. Yeah. I mean, can I read this nutrition label? Like, I have to I'm at the age where I feel like take my glasses off and squint at it. So this says 14.8 grams of sugar. This is what we usually do on this episode is we read nutrition labels. My favorite thing the original has 16 grams of sugar. That's pretty similar.
Molly 18:12
Okay, all right. Interesting. Okay, well gosh, that was really fun to taste the side by side
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:18
yeah. And then there are other premium brands that have like jumped in on the Oh like now we can have premium tonic well now we can market premium tonic water there's like the cue brand. Which which I've tried which I thought was okay but not nearly as good as the fever tree that was my feeling so like but I would like to see more options in this space so I'm not don't just feel like I'm shilling fever tree which could sponsor the episode, but they're not
Molly 18:44
that said, you know, I feel like any tonic water is better than no tonic water.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:48
Yeah, no, like, like, again, like I'm gonna put this bottle of Safeway brand back in the fridge and I'm 100% going to finish it which I don't always do with stuff leftover from spilled milk.
Molly 18:58
Do you have the rest of the four packs of things gonna
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:01
offer you? Yeah, okay.
Molly 19:04
I'm excited. Okay, apparently there's also tonic syrup. And now that we're talking about it, I think I've ordered it before Oh, and I didn't wind up using it or particularly liking it okay, you know it was it felt like a sort of precious like apothecary kind of vibe. Sure precious bars.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:23
Yeah, I mean producer Abby put it on the agenda and I was like, if I'd known in time I probably would have ordered some of this or gone to our local apothecary it's fine. But yeah, let's blame producer Abby for
Molly 19:33
let's do Matthew we have some spilled mail today from listener Carla.
Good morning host Matthew and host Alter Ego Molly muck butter. Is that my alter ego?
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:50
I'm sure this is something we said on a previous episode. Hang on. I want to drink this like mix. Not bad.
Molly 19:57
Does it taste like any one more than the other?
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:59
Oh, I just drank from the from the dump bucket here where we've been dumping out our underground tonic water. Pretty good actually like like, I think maybe mixing tonic waters is going to become a new trend that we just started.
Molly 20:11
Okay from listener Karla Good morning host Matthew and host Alter Ego Mollymook butter. I'm making lunch as I listened to Episode 614 condiments on tables. I'm sorting some spinach that is about to go bad and reminded how much I absolutely detest the chore that is pulling completely slimy wilted spinach apart from the slightly wilted but still usable spinach right there with you. I buy fresh spinach often, which means this is a chore I have to do somewhat regularly but I fucking loathe it. The feel the smell. It makes me vowed to stop buying fresh spinach entirely. But of course I keep buying it anyway, I would show them. What is the kitchen or food chore that you absolutely hate yet or unable to avoid. Oh, I love this. Okay, okay. Number one. I want to sympathize. I think one of the most disgusting like, food smells and I mean this like I know that's a big statement. Is the smell of greens that are going off. Yeah, whether it's spinach, radish greens, or like salad like a like a salad mix. Oh my god. Cilantro.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:15
Oh, liquefying cilantro. Real bass
Molly 21:18
smell is horrendous. And the other thing is, is like if one or two of the leaves are going bad, it'll make the whole bag smell like it. I hate it. It's disgusting.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:30
Okay, so for me, number one emptying the dishwasher.
Molly 21:33
Would you say you fucking loathe it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:36
I don't know if I'd go that far. But it's my least favorite of like most of the regular kitchen chores that I have to do. Yeah. And like, I don't know what it is about it exactly. Because I don't mind doing the dishes and filling the dishwasher. But something about it. Like there's a lot of bending over which, which means a lot of groaning. And it just feels like it feels Sisyphean I guess Yeah,
Molly 22:02
yeah, I get that. I don't feel that way right now. Which is good because we are at a stage of life where we are running the dishwasher every day because we have a baby who is bottle fed. And we cook multiple meals per day at home.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:20
One chore that I recently added to my like, I tried to like establish as a habit. So like I put a little note by my work area to remind myself to do this is to clean out the crisper drawer. So which is not one of my favorite jobs because first of all, I'm going to encounter some some bad greens. Yeah. And then and like then I have to like, you know, scrub the bottom of it.
Molly 22:43
I think I only do that like twice a year.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:45
I know but like I want to I want to do better. And also like you know not have it be a mix of like stuff we want to eat and stuff we're definitely not going to eat I'm often I'm pretty
Molly 22:55
good at keeping the contents of it cleared out. But I mean like right now I can see on the floor of my fridge like several inches of slide under the crisper drawer. There's been some sort of spill. Oh yeah, Rs 10. And it's like dried and I mean, it's contained, it's fine. But I just keep looking at it and then just close.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:15
I've been doing the exact same thing and I've been know what the spill was. I knocked over some some chipotle and adobo and like the sauce like ran down to the bottom of the fridge and got it dried up and it's very hard to remove.
Molly 23:25
So I find cleaning, like scrubbing the fridge like cleaning the actual fridge to be very stressful. And the reason I think I find it stressful is that I'm not supposed to keep the door oh, yeah, I feel like I feel like I shouldn't have the door open this long. And so I feel like I'm having to like Rush. And inevitably what's in there is yeah, like caked on. And it's also like cold and hard and it's gonna take a lot of scrubbing. And meanwhile I am just wasting energy
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:54
I feel like we were the kind of people who could afford smart fridges there would be a voice like telling us to stop stop doing Oh yeah.
Molly 24:00
Oh yeah, big time. Okay, and something that I really dislike Yeah. I really don't like grating cheese. I don't really talk about this recently did yeah, we did. I don't like grating cheese. I don't like you know the kind of residue it leaves on your fingers. It feels like even if my hand still looks clean. I want to wash it because it's gonna smell bad. I find graders easy to clean but just annoying like if you don't put water on it right away the cheese kind of starts to harden on there. Yeah, I don't like cleaning up the cutting board after its head graded cheese on it that
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:33
I'm so glad you said that like I so I'm figuring out like things that I chopped so first of all I'm not a big I don't really enjoy chopping garlic very much because I don't like getting out of my fingers but it sticks to the knife and like there's no better way to get it off and just knock it off of your fingers. Yeah, and I feel like I just chop and chop and chop and like I never know when to stop.
Molly 24:51
But you know what I do like is when you if you are like making minced garlic or garlic that you're almost turning into a paste Hmm I love it when you add a little bit of kosher salt to it and you go back to it and it starts to give off all this water and then it doesn't stick to the knife in the same way
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:10
and here's a related one that I'm going to be I'm going to be facing like you know looking looking into the abyss at like right after this taping, which is I need to chop some cilantro to put into Pico to Geico and cleaning the cilantro off the cutting board after chopping it like it's it's quite sticky as far as greens go and like I feel like there's no there's no way to do this that feels just looking at that like cilantro detritus on the cutting board and like there's no way that I just have to like move
Molly 25:40
I only use fresh herbs either if they like come in my CSA box or if I'm making some dish that calls for it and absolutely cannot do without it. Because a fresh herbs okay, this is another thing I don't like working with fresh herbs. Like I don't want
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:58
this like me admitting that I that I'm not a big fruit fan like you know Yeah, it's food people were supposed to love fresh herbs. I supposed to put them in everything. We're supposed to have an herb garden in our window so
Molly 26:09
I hate it. I don't like rosemary and things I do not like rosemary and things like a little bit. I don't like stripping time off of the sprig that drives me nuts so
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:20
here's what I want from time up like I would love stripping time if it came in very discreet. That's right Briggs with no branch no branch. Oh, like let's let's get some like you know, Franken science on this right
Molly 26:33
and the branches. I mean, the stem needs to be strong. Like fresh tender stem. Yeah. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:41
these days have gotten so weak they all get participation trophies. I
Molly 26:45
also don't like pulling all the leaves off of parsley in order to chop the leaves same thing with cilantro is so tedious.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:52
Yeah, so having said all that, I love fresh cilantro. I use it like multiple times a week and like I you know, I love it enough that I'm willing to deal with the detritus that leaves behind and having to like clean the the liquid cilantro out of the crisper drawer.
Molly 27:07
I will also say Okay, and this is not something that I absolutely hate, but I just have never the only kind of meat that I am like, very not squeamish about is ground meat. When I'm making a dish with meat, like the whole like parts of an animal. I just like a half a cow like a half a cow. I feel like it is always the part of the recipe that I put off to the end having to open up the plastic. That's an interesting question. wrap over the styrofoam tray that's holding the meat Yeah, I mean it's fine it's fine but it's just it's like my least favorite part.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:50
I'm trying to think like what order I will do like the prep in like I feel like I'm pretty good about like getting my least favorite part out of the way first if I can and I think that for me that that often is also like prepping the beat but it's more because like it's not because I'm squeamish about it but it's more like like the cleanup and like like making sure to Like yeah, rub meat juices on things.
Molly 28:14
I think he's I think this is it for me too. It feels like there's always like juice that's going to run out of juice and it's going to like dribble on the floor or you have to wash your hands so many times yeah I'm glad you clarified that because I don't think it's that I'm like a kicked out by touching the meat or anything like that I feel like it's like all the cleanup that it requires and the organization I
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:39
feel like our vegetarian listeners are listening like listening to this be like get there is an alternative to
Molly 28:45
you know the interesting thing is Matthew my now but wow this week okay actually is kind of like looking really like let's do pointing a finger at me
so my now but wow, this week is an article that ran in eater by the novelist see Pam Jiang, who you may know for the novel how much of these hills is gold, which came out in 2020, or the brand new novel land of milk and honey, okay, she wrote a piece for eater called Who's afraid of a spatchcocked chicken. I love the title and and we'll link to it in the show notes. It's it's a quite short little essay. And while she goes straight for like, the kind of thing we're just talking about, she basically talks about, like, why are white people so squeamish about meat? And also, she has a really interesting sort of length, she makes a really interesting point about language, the way in which the English language goes to lengths to separate the animal from the thing we eat. Oh, sure, right. So that you know we even like the animal we tend to refer to using like Anglo Saxon Words whereas the meat we tend to use these like Latinate French related kind of words. And she takes that even further in sort of thinking about the way in which we disconnect the body or sort of the the whole picture of the body and its needs and it's sort of Visser ality, from the experience of eating.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:24
Okay, this reminds me of I've like fun fact this is like, like a, you know, the epitome of like a fun fact that I'm sure I've shared on the show before that I learned fairly recently that the word rooster is like a relatively recent coinage in English like you know, going back to like the early 20th century because the word for a mail check it used to be roost caulk and your leave it like, you know, puritanical like Americans are like we can't we can't have like ladies going around saying roost caulk.
Molly 31:00
But yeah, cocktail has survived. That's true.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:04
That's a good point. Interesting.
Molly 31:05
What what uses of caulk were willing to tolerate
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:09
that is that is a good point. Yeah.
Molly 31:10
I mean, what what uses of caulk Are you willing to tolerate let's get into it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:14
It's let's get serious. Good thing. We've
Molly 31:17
reached the end of the episode. Oh, okay. Our producer is Abby circuito. Ella,
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:21
and Molly has a newsletter called I've got a feeling that is terrific read and it's available at Molly weisenberg.substack.com. I'm a subscriber and you should too.
Molly 31:32
Thanks, Matthew. And Matthew has two bands, Twilight dinars and early to the airport. Both
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:37
of those bands are working on new music. But you can find us now on Spotify and Bandcamp and stuff and you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts and you can hang out with other Spielberg listeners and talk about you know what? What flavors What are your What are your least favorite kitchen chores on Reddit at everything spilled? milk.reddit.com
Molly 31:58
Yeah, that was a great question. Thank you listener Carla. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:00
and until next time, thank you for listening to spilled milk.
Molly 32:03
The show that's dripping juice and resume are in its sleeves and sticking to your fingers.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:12
I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
Unknown Speaker 32:14
Foley Weisenberg
Molly 32:23
I can't believe you let me get away with that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:25
No, I take
Molly 32:28
no, I'm
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:30
away. So if you know this is going nowhere. It's not gonna work.