Today we're extra remote as we encounter breakfast situations, Oktoberfest memories and brown flavors. Part of this complete episode: spreadable spreads, fancy candy, computer air and The Sad, The Vaguely Menacing and The Unrelatable.
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Molly 0:00
Hi I'm Matthew and I'm Molly.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:06
And this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any today
Molly 0:12
we are talking about Nutella
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:14
or Natella. We're going to discuss the pronunciation right we
Molly 0:17
are we are and we should also say that we are taping this episode remotely and by remotely I mean like extra remotely extra remote remotely in that I am in Seattle and Matthew is in Tokyo.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:31
Oh, and believe me, you're gonna hear about that later in the episode when we get to segments.
Molly 0:36
Okay. So anyway, happy December everybody. And yeah, you know nothing says December like some hazelnut chocolate spread.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:46
That's true. Nothing also nothing says December like teenager the show December who as of as of this December will no longer be a teenager.
Molly 0:53
Oh my What are we gonna call them?
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:55
Oh, I was going to Yeah, adult child of the show December a cots D? I think okay, you're okay with that. I'll check. Okay.
Molly 1:04
Okay, well, anyway, today we're talking about Nutella. I first encountered this stuff. When I
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:11
wait question. Is this memory lane? Yeah, this
Molly 1:14
is memory lane. Oh, yes. Yes. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:16
I was created for a moment.
Molly 1:18
So when I was in eighth grade, my cousin Sarah was in her junior year of high school. And she spent I think all of that year with a host family in northern Germany. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:34
like the Black Forest. I do not know German geography at all. I don't either, but
Molly 1:38
I do remember that it was Schlaich fish lease Finkelstein. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:44
you said that the first place ever at least. sleaze fig hole Stein.
Molly 1:51
Okay, anyway, this is a lovely family. And I adored everything that Sarah's house mom cooked, but what I really remember was the first breakfast. Wait, you were there too? Oh, well, so what I was gonna say, sorry, I didn't finish the last. The last part of my, my, my setting up. So spring break. When I was in eighth grade, my mom took me and my cousin Katie, who was Sarah's little sister. My mom took the two of us to go visit Sarah. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:23
it's classic. She sleeps at home was driving for spring break. That's
Molly 2:28
right. That's right. And one of the things that I remember about eating with Sarah's host family is that they had crusty bread and Nutella at breakfast. Yes. And I'd never encountered Nutella before I thought this was the most magical stuff. I mean, I thought it was mind blowing that this was served at breakfast time.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:48
And this I hope we get into this when we talk about the product because like, I feel like this took place back when Nutella was like a European thing, right?
Molly 2:57
Yes, yes. Yeah, no, I had never heard of it before. And to this day, I still I still think of Nutella as a German thing. Although as we're going to discuss it's Italian all the way. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:09
I don't think I think when you said that. I was I my thought was oh, it must be Swiss. I don't know why.
Molly 3:15
Although I will say so. After that trip to Germany. I remember we brought home Nutella. Like you couldn't buy it here yet or not? No. Okay. Yeah. Anyway. And then I remember when I was 18. So the summer after I graduated from high school, my cousin Katie. So the younger sister of Sarah, Katie and I did one of those like Eurail pass, you know, few week things in Europe. And we stayed at a youth hostel in Zurich that I remember had this incredible like breakfast situation. All kinds of sliced cheeses and these hard crusty rolls and breakfast meats and single serving little things of Nutella like we have here of like Smuckers jam or like whip Oh yeah, no like a peel off foil. That's right. Yeah. And I remember being like That's right. We have arrived like we are in Europe now. We can have Nutella at breakfast.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:13
Yeah, in Europe, like all over Europe, the fountains in the in the public square Ron Brown with a tail. Right? Yeah, yeah. You know where I like to go for spring break Oktoberfest. Good one. I've been sitting on that joke for like four minutes. Like this is not even funny. But am I asked to come out of my mouth? Or I'm going to be thinking about it.
Molly 4:36
Is this like in the southern hemisphere October fast? I was thinking
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:39
that too. Like in Australia. I'll ask my my singing teacher Doug lives in Australia. I'll ask him if they celebrate Oktoberfest. It is
Molly 4:49
springtime. April. Terrific. Okay, Matthew, what what about you? When When did you first encounter this stuff? Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:56
I say one more thing about October fast. I grew up in Portland, Oregon. And we we often went to the Mount Angel Oktoberfest, which was like a, it was an Oktoberfest in a small town outside of Portland. And it was held in September and this just blew my mind when I was a kid. You could celebrate Oktoberfest in September.
Molly 5:15
What even made you think of Oktoberfest in the first place? Oh, cuz
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:18
you said Germany, and you said going for spring break to Germany. And that made me think of like spring break and drinking beer and that made me think of Oktoberfest. I don't usually drink coffee, but I sure drank coffee before this. This taping this morning, so that's what you're gonna get out of your extra zingy? That's right people. I've got zing, I've got zip I've got pizzazz.
Molly 5:42
Do you have any? Do you have a zest for life?
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:45
I think I may have a zest for life.
Molly 5:48
Oh my God, our listeners are not going to recognize you. You sound so happy. Don't usually sound happy. You do you do and you sound extra happy to have a
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:58
bag of mandarin oranges in the fridge. That's my zest for life. Cool. Yeah. Oh, my memory lane. Okay. Yeah, so I definitely encountered Nutella, like some time, like maybe in my early 20s Not in Europe, just like when it started to like trickle into the US. And so I definitely had it before December was born. But they were a big fan of Nutella from a young age. So that's when we started keeping it in the house and
Molly 6:27
we swear that they first encounter it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:29
I think I just like brought it home. Like on the on the idea that like maybe this is something this kid will eat. Okay, so and they sure did. So now we I still I still always keep it in the house. And I will often have I'll make two pieces of toast or two halves of an English muffin and put peanut butter on one Nutella on the other and then like decide in the moment which one I'm going to eat first. And so this is always this time biggest excitement of my week. Yes. Always at breakfast time.
Molly 6:58
Okay, okay, hold on. Now, before we go any further, we've got to address the pronunciation issue, please. So what I'm learning from Wikipedia, is that in the US, it's primarily pronounced Nutella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:12
And I hear that a lot. But I always say Natella Well, I
Molly 7:15
think that that, at least according to Wikipedia, is the UK pronunciation like the British English Pronunciation. Okay, and then I'm almost positive that in Italy. And when I encountered it in Germany, I think it was a new sound as opposed to sound. But I don't think there's as much of an emphasis put on the second syllable.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:38
Yeah, I don't think they have a new sound in Italian. Like, have you ever heard an Italian person? Say no.
Molly 7:47
If we have any, any listeners who have heard an Italian person,
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:51
not we don't want to hear from any Italian listener. We just hear from the people standing next to them overhearing.
Molly 8:00
Yeah, okay. All right. So what is this stuff? Matthew, you you a minute ago said some you like we're very clear about the fact that it's brown. And I love could
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:11
not be more clear about the fact that this is brown.
Molly 8:15
You said that because Wikipedia describes it as a brand of quote, brown, sweetened hazelnut cocoa spray. Classic
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:25
brown brand.
Molly 8:29
When we got Gilbert, the way that like the puppies were differentiated from one another in the litter is that from like an early age there was like a little color. They were assigned a color and a ribbon color was tied around their neck. This is the beginning of a horror story about a puppy with a green ribbon.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:49
No. Oh, and if you if you had tied that puppies had falls off. Okay, that's back. Yeah. Yeah, literary literary jokes.
Molly 8:57
I think way. Gilbert was his color was brown. And so every now and then, when we reminisce about Gilbert, when he was just a little a little puppy, we refer to him as brown. Like, oh, that's
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:10
delightful. Which one do you wish you had chosen instead?
Molly 9:13
Well, I think that originally, we really wanted black or light blue, I think but they were all claimed by the time we got there. Okay, so we went with brown. Right? We made absolutely the right choice. All this to say Nutella is brown. Yeah. So here's the deal. It is manufactured by the Italian company for Arrow, which a lot of people know as the maker of Ferrero rochet the little like hazelnut truffle things.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:39
Oh, yeah, of course. I think of these as like a candy that I used to think was fancy when I was kid. Exactly,
Molly 9:46
exactly. I remember. I remember at some point, like in my 20s I remember somebody being somebody I knew being given like a 12 pack of forever rochet This was time and they thought it was high ever right?
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:03
Yeah, I did not know this was the same is the same company that makes Nutella. That's exactly
Molly 10:07
right. And I was really interested or surprised in some ways when doing this research to find that the product is still made by Ferrero. And I'm not seeing anywhere that Ferrero is owned by like some bigger conglomerate, which I think is a little unusual these days. I think so too.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:27
Do you remember when we were kids? There was like a food conglomerate called Beatrice that bought a bunch of food companies and then put on TV commercials about how you should be happy that your brand the brand you love has been bought by Beatrice foods. And I remember the jingle from these Absolutely. Nonsense commercials sing it. Matthew Beatrice, you've known us all along. Oh,
Molly 10:56
that's so sweet.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:00
It made no sense that if it makes no sense to me now okay.
Molly 11:03
Okay. Nutella has been around since 1964 and has always been made by Ferraro and in fact, the product itself was created by Ferrero and the founder and the family that still runs it as far as I can tell is the Ferrero family. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:20
I have a question. So when you eat a Ferreira rochet, which I haven't in a while, I sort of imagined it being like a crispy ball on the outside and then like a cream on the inside, or the crispy on the inside. Also,
Molly 11:33
I feel like it might have some Krispies on the inside.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:36
Okay, then this then then this words the bit because because I was wondering if, if they got Nutella by like scooping the insides out of a bunch of Freyr, O'Shea's and putting it in a jar. We're
Molly 11:46
gonna get there, we're gonna find out. Okay, we're gonna find out. Okay, so before we can talk about Nutella, I want to do a little sort of background on the concept of like, hazelnut and chocolate blended together into a paste. Okay, so this is called gianduja. That's the Italian word for it. Yes, I'm sure that pretty much all of us have seen the word gianduja like at a gelato shop, right? Yes, that's exactly what came to mind. Yeah, so gianduja is just a blend of chocolate with hazelnut paste basically, in its earliest form. It was chocolate that was stretched with hazelnut paste or hazelnut butter.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:27
Okay, when you say stretch, yeah, do you mean like increased in like bulked up or do you mean stretched like Taff?
Molly 12:34
I mean, it bulked up and here's, here's the deal. Okay, so we're going to talk now about the Napoleonic Wars. Now.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:42
I figured we would, ya know, Episode
Molly 12:45
complete without a visit from everybody's favorite. Emperor, Emperor. Napoleon Bonaparte. Abbey, could
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:56
you please play the Napoleonic Wars theme song here segment theme song. Thanks.
Molly 13:07
So gianduja was invented in Turin, which is a town in the Piedmont region of northwest Italy. So it was invented there sometime between 1796 and 1814. The reason they even thought to do it, is that during the time of the Napoleonic Wars, so like early 1800s, Napoleon basically tried to put the squeeze on the British Empire,
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:34
oh, embargo is always putting the squeeze on embargoing
Molly 13:38
all their goods. This was called either the continental system or the continental blockade. But there was a shortage of cocoa in Europe, I don't really understand this, maybe it's because most cocoa came in through like British, like the British Empire. That makes sense. So any ports that were controlled by the French at this time would not receive anything from the British Empire. And so within Europe and all these ports controlled by the French, there were shortages and all kinds of goods that usually would come from Britain. And I guess cocoa was one of them. All right. So so there was this chocolate maker in Turin, who only had like a little bit of chocolate and he needed to make it go further. So what he did was he took like a very abundant local commodity, and that's hazelnuts. All right. He ground them up into this kind of oily paste and used that to basically make the little bit of chocolate he had go further and this was gianduja.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:45
Okay, so that couldn't have been the first thing he tried. Right? What do you think were the combinations that he rejected? I'm gonna guess number one Plaster of Paris. Okay. Sounds good. Number Number two,
Molly 14:57
chalky. Very Chalky, though.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:59
Never to cite Chuck. Yeah.
Molly 15:03
Okay. Anyway,
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:05
so theory barley.
Molly 15:09
Hold on. So the name gianduja it comes from a Italian
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:15
for John Dory.
Molly 15:17
It's a character.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:20
Wait, okay, wait, wait. So so my so my joke is like too close to the truth.
Molly 15:24
Maybe Who is John Dory actually other than a fish that
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:28
did as I was saying it I was like, I don't know, I just know it's a fish anyway. Alright John's already fought in the Napoleonic Wars or possibly the Punic Wars. I don't know.
Molly 15:38
Okay, so in Piedmont, there was a like carnival character and a marionette character that was called,
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:50
just wandered around town bothering people.
Molly 15:53
This character's name was John Dewey. Yeah. And he was said to represent like, the archetype of a Piedmontese citizen. Okay. Okay. And so what
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:05
characteristics did gianduja have that made him so so very Piedmont of maybe he was just full of haze? Wait, was he the star of the of the TV series? Piedmonte. Yeah. It was just like a bunch of sketches. Felt like pictures in Piedmont are always doing this. That's
Molly 16:24
right. So so that's where the name gianduja comes from, from this character in like Piedmontese culture, named John Dewey. Yeah. Okay. So something I didn't know is that gianduja can be consumed as bars like it can be molded like regular chocolate. It's just a lifestyle better. Sure. Yeah, it's a little softer because of the hazelnut oil. Or it can be of course, a filling for chocolates. And it can be in either like a milk version or a plain version, which I guess would be a little bit more like dark chocolate. All right. So this is the original concept behind Nutella and other chocolate hazelnut spreads. And the big difference of course, is that the spreads are spreadable. Yeah. How
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:10
do they make it spreadable?
Molly 17:11
Well, in part it's through vegetable oils and stabilizers. And also so anyway, what makes like gianduja different from Nutella and commercial hazelnut chocolate spreads? Is that the latter the spreads use cocoa powder and vegetable oils where as gianduja just uses cocoa butter based chocolate. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. So oh no, I deleted I deleted the portrait. Oh, Pietro Ferrero. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:40
Okay, listeners. I want you to hear what Molly did to me here. She wrote in the agenda behold pa tro Ferreira in this portrait he appear it appears both sad and vaguely menacing portrait omitted.
Molly 17:55
Hold on, hold on. I'm going to pull it up.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:57
Please send me this bad boy. I want to see the bad boy. Okay. My breath is baited. Oh, I see Molly's cursor. Okay, reload just gonna be paid. Oh, wow. Okay,
Molly 18:09
so we're gonna link to this and vaguely menacing. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:12
we're gonna link this in the show notes. Yeah, he's like, like, like a sad man with with like, you know, fits of anger. Like when things aren't going well in the factory? Like, no, I'm sure I'm sure working at the candy factory in the 40s was great. Yeah, I take back what I just said. I'm sure the children working there had a good old time
Molly 18:39
I know you love it when I do corporate history. So are you ready? Yeah. Okay, here we go. So Pietro Ferrero was a candy and chocolate maker in the town of Alibaba, which is also in Piedmont. And he opened what Wikipedia refers to as like a laboratory to create sweets and things in 1942. And of course, this was in the middle of World War Two, as you may know, and his company sounds
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:05
like this laboratory was like secretly making munitions or chemical weapons or something. Right. Well,
Molly 19:09
they were probably making them out of hazelnuts. Because that was the like the widely avail. It was like a very widely available and very low cost. raw material for him to use. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:23
did you see the episode of Piedmontese where they invent the hazelnut gun?
Molly 19:30
You are never allowed to have coffee before we tape. You're fired. Okay. Oh, hold on. That was good, though. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:39
did like that. Yeah. Okay, great.
Molly 19:41
Okay, hold on. So according, this is straight from Wikipedia. Okay. So Pietro, who, you know, lived close to the town of Turin. He had often watched the workers there go to work. And he had begun to try to like brainstorm a sweet alternative. So something he could produce with his company that could replace the bread and tomatoes that these workers would take with them to work now I'm not sure why.
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:05
But okay, okay, first of all, this is exactly what I imagined CEOs are like that, like, he doesn't have anything to do. So he's sitting like looking out the window like, ah by workers coming to my factory
Molly 20:25
these are workers in a different town. And he's like, how was he watching them? Well, because he had previous Matthew I met I omitted part of his history, where he had opened a pastry shop in Turin and it failed. And then he moved back to Alba, which I think is where he was from. But as he was, you know, running this factory making sweets in Alba, he was reflecting upon the workers.
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:50
Okay, and he's thinking like these poor saps eating bread and tomatoes. Like, can't we get them the candy for lunch
Molly 21:00
instead? That's exactly. That's exactly what what industrialists are like, yeah. All right. How can we do bad things? Right. Okay. So this is how he invents the stuff that came to be called Nutella. He wanted it to be substantial, but also affordable, substantial in the sense that it could sustain a hard laboring worker. Yes, throughout the day. So this became like his mission and fillable
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:31
in the form of a paste so it could just be dispensed directly into the workers mouth so they wouldn't have to take a break. He
Molly 21:37
apparently worked on this nonstop According to Wikipedia, and even at night, trying different dose, find the ideal recipe, his wife, era
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:49
do you say dos? Yeah,
Molly 21:50
that's what Wikipedia says. You know? When? Paste.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:59
Okay, all right.
Molly 22:03
non newtonian fluid. Yeah. Okay, you could poke your finger in it, but if you slapped it, it was hard.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:10
Have you ever slapped the slap the nutshell? I have just absolutely. We're gonna record remotely like at the same time next week, and it's gonna be just as bad as
Molly 22:28
dude. Okay, I have places to be could let me
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:31
finish this. All right, yes, this is this an important history lesson.
Molly 22:35
It is okay. Okay. So, you know, he's, he's working really hard. And
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:44
I've literally just laughing I didn't even say anything.
Molly 22:48
Anyway, in 1946, after four years of working on this product, he launched this like stuff onto the market and called it
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:03
stuff onto the market. That's funny. Anyway,
Molly 23:06
he called it pasta gianduja. It was a mixture that was like, packaged like a solid block and aluminum foil. And you could like transport it, cut it and spread it on breads, like a thick cream. Okay. This new side drugs. It was designed precisely like for these workers, right? Yes. So he made a little bit. It was a huge success. And it was especially big success among like kids, which somehow he hadn't expected. Wikipedia says it wasn't the kids working at the factory. I think you're gonna really like how Wikipedia phrased this. Okay, it turned out to be a cheap dessert for children's snacks and gluttony. Okay, okay. Anyway, so like if a kilo of chocolate at that time was 3000 lira. This was 600 lira for a kilo.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:01
Okay. Wow. So hazelnuts and vegetable oil really can stretch that chocolate a long way. That's right. So production or the you know, the lira to the dog to like a like a, you know, to 20 $23 at that time. So
Molly 24:15
anyway, so production sparkling tears. So production went went.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:25
I wanted to know that but I didn't look at, okay,
Molly 24:28
okay. production goes through the roof. Soon. They've got like 100 employees, and then soon they can't even produce this stuff like artisanal anymore. They got to like, turn it into major factory stuff. And anyway, he founded for Arrow In 1946, I think to market this product in particular. Then he died three years later, how many years later, like three years later, okay, so on March 2 1949, Pietro Ferrero died perhaps suffering from a heart attack. I've exhausted it is said by the frenetic distribution activity that he personally carried out driving his Topolino through the streets of Piedmont and I looked up a Topolino it's what we today call the Fremont, the Fremont the Fiat 500. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:17
is that the car that the band Rush look wrote a song about? Oh, I think it is
Molly 25:22
a Topolino Yeah. Do you think that means like, top of the line?
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:26
Oh, I hadn't thought about it till you mentioned it, but I think you're absolutely right. And looking at it, like this is a top of the line car.
Molly 25:33
That's right. So anyway, you know, the company stays in the hands of the family and they develop a creamy version a couple of years later in 1951. They call it super Kmart. gianduja. Okay. Oh, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:48
like, right up until PHR died. It was still most it was still sold in brick for That's
Molly 25:53
exactly right. Yeah. And in 1951, they came up with a creamy version. Then in 1963, Micheli Ferraro, who was Pietro sun, revamped it to market it throughout Europe, and the reformulated stuff was what he called Nutella. So I think up to this point, you know, it was super clear ma gianduja. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:13
I have a question that you may not may or may not be able to answer and then I have a fact. The question is Was this before or after they developed Ferreira? crochets Oh, I
Molly 26:22
bet it was. I don't know. I was gonna say that it was before but I don't know. Are we going to do a Ferrero rochet episode now? I think we should.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:31
Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll just tell the same story about pH. Ro Prieta for Arrow.
Molly 26:36
Okay, maybe I'll find some other pictures of him too.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:39
And I was asking you earlier how many how many lira to the US dollar at that time? I don't have the answer to that. But right now 3000. Turkish Lira equals 105 US dollars. Okay, so does that have anything to do with anything we've talked about? Not at all. Great. Okay.
Molly 26:54
So what is this stuff? Let's get down to it because it
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:58
because as you mentioned, you need to get out of here. So
Molly 27:01
I do. The main ingredients are sugar and palm oil that makes up over 50% of it. That checks out. Yeah, that's before we even get to the hazelnuts or the cocoa. hazelnuts are roughly 13% Then you've got cocoa salads and you've got skim milk. Under Italian law this cannot be labeled chocolate cream, because it doesn't meet like minimum cocoa solids criteria.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:26
I wonder does it say chocolate on it like in the US.
Molly 27:30
So what mine says it got some with you. Great. Oh, it says the original hazelnut spread. Ah and here it says hazelnut spread with cocoa. Okay, Ferreira uses 25% of the global supply of hazelnuts. Wait, what? Yes. Ferrero the company uses 25% of the global supply of hazelnuts and it doesn't all go to Nutella. But the company as a whole for their products. Use a quarter of all the world's hazelnuts
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:58
we should we should take a moment to mention how much we like the the Trader Joe's chocolate with 30% whole hazelnuts bar. Yeah, that's good stuff has nothing to do with Ferreira but I mean, maybe I don't know. Maybe they make it behind the scenes and then Trader Joe's puts their private label on it.
Molly 28:15
Maybe you know, basically yeah, this stuff is is it at this point it kind of doesn't have very much to do with like original like Piedmontese. gianduja, which would have been like 70 or which is like 70% hazelnut paste and like 30% Chocolate.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:35
Yeah, if we were like YouTubers, we would probably do a video where we get like a brick of real Piedmontese. gianduja and then like, eat it with some Nutella and decide which one's better. I guess. I don't know how YouTube works. I don't
Molly 28:48
either. I don't maybe maybe listener of the show. Kenji wants to do that big on YouTube. Yeah. Anyway, Nutella is made in like lots of different facilities around the world. And ingredients and like the relative quantities of ingredients varies a bit country to country. Okay, I bet the American one has more sugar. I didn't find an exact statistic on it. But the North American market, the Nutella for the North American market is made both in Ontario, Canada and in Mexico. Okay, so I'm kind of guessing that whatever they have in Canada is the same as what we have.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:22
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Except it has French on the label. That's right.
Molly 29:27
So yeah, this stuff contains sugar, modified palm oil, hazelnuts, cocoa powder, skim milk powder, whey powder, which is to stabilize the emulsion, soy lecithin, which is also to emulsify and keep it from separating, and make you nice and spread. How do
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:46
they get it so smooth? Like do they just like grind it really finely or do they also like push it through a through a screen?
Molly 29:53
You know, I probably could have pushed further in my research to find that the Wikipedia description of how it's made did not get into how they make it so smooth. We
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:02
should like industrial espionage our way into the Nutella factory. We
Molly 30:07
should, we should. I think you might find it interesting what they do with the hazelnuts. They well, they go through two rounds of quality control, okay, so when they arrive at the processing plant this thing called a guillotine that is what Wikipedia calls it is used to chop the nuts so that they can quality control inspect the interior of the nuts. Okay, then after that they're cleaned and they're roasted. And then this is the part you're really gonna like a second quality control comes via a computer controlled blast of air, which removes bad nuts from the batch.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:48
Okay, if you don't have an explanation for how that works, I'm sending you back to the to the journalists who
Molly 30:55
have an explanation. It's so baffling to me and I suppose us they
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:59
use computer air to blow away bad nuts. That's what you're saying.
Molly 31:04
That's my saying. It's a computer controlled blast of air, and it removes the bad nuts.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:12
Okay, wait, wait, I think I genuinely know what this means sorting. So it's the air is not deciding which are the best. Really, they're they're using like some other like, you know, method of like sampling or spectroscopy or something to to identify the bad dots and the air is just used to blast them off of the production line. You know, but I want to see this we I joked earlier about someone inventing the hazelnut gun and this is it.
Molly 31:39
This is it. It's a computer controlled blast of air. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:43
Okay, that is that is cool. Like, we need to go onto YouTube and see if there's if there's like an inside the Nutella factory video because I bet there is. I want to see I want to see these these nuts get blasted. So
Molly 31:55
Matthew, I bought a jar with Oh, great. Which child of the preteen of the show really? June is very excited about Utah. She she's been eating it for breakfast every morning. Sure most.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:08
You've got some on a butter knife there.
Molly 32:09
I've got some on a knife and I'm gonna lick it. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:12
I'm excited. I don't have any.
Molly 32:15
It tastes like you're up to me. Does it taste like you're up to? Um,
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:18
I don't remember. I have been to Europe a couple times while to England a couple times into France once and I don't remember if I had it there or not. So not really. I don't really have that association. My favorite thing about Nutella is the texture like how it's creamy but also kind of chewy. Mm hmm. You know, I love that that too.
Molly 32:37
I love this flavor. Oh, yeah. Oh, I do love the flavor. No, no, but I was gonna say I love this flavor with like untoasted bread, like, seeing like a crusty white roll. Like a like a you know, European breakfast buffet. Or you tear open a baguette and spread some Nutella on it like untoasted crusty white bread.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:00
I almost never spread anything on untoasted bread. Why not? Why for the show, Laurie does it maybe I should Mm
Molly 33:07
hmm. I mean, so sweet. So sweet. And yet, I wouldn't want this product to be any different. Do you
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:16
need to refrigerate Nutella? I don't. Okay, you shouldn't
Molly 33:19
refrigerate it. So the sugar makes it shelf stable and the palm oil in it is very resistant to going rancid so it's not going to go bad. And if you refrigerate it the nut fats will harden in the fridge.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:31
Oh not fats. Yeah, not fats don't mess with your doling out nut facts
Molly 33:36
Matthew The last thing I want to say is so we keep talking about eating this for breakfast and in the US for Arrow was actually sued for like linking Nutella in its advertising to the idea of a nutritious breakfast oh, mm hmm and they you know they had to pay a settlement and make changes to their labeling and advertising because this is not part of a nutritious breakfast this is part of a delicious breakfast
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:03
now now like in their commercials do they have to put up a thing that says not part of this complete breakfast? That would be pretty great.
Molly 34:11
You know I wonder if if companies that say like part of this complete breakfast or part of your complete breakfast? Do you think that it used to say like part of your nutritious breakfast and then only they had to change it to be like more neutral like complete
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:26
maybe I mean like anything can be part of a complete breakfast if you start with a complete practice in the
Molly 34:34
motor oil part of motor oil is
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:36
is like among this complete breakfast just hanging out.
Molly 34:41
Okay, do we have anything that we want to say about like uses of Nutella, other we've already discussed? That's
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:48
a good question. Like I really only ever put it on toast or eat it directly out of the jar. Like I know I know it figures in desserts certainly. Sometimes like bar cookies. I've got a bar cookie made with a Nutella. Did
Molly 35:03
you say made with a Nutella?
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:05
I did. Okay,
Molly 35:07
you know I know that so I love Nutella but I do just kind of want it on its own because I think part of what's so good about it is the texture right
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:16
and like it can win when when used in baking like it can it can turn into like a like a glue.
Molly 35:22
Oh it can. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:24
feel like I've had some nutella things where it's like okay, this is like to to kind of like thick and gluey because of the Nutella and I want it more on its own. Because like if you remove any more moisture from it, it's gonna it's going to be too thick. Yeah. And that's what baking will do. It will remove moisture. Ah,
Molly 35:42
heat will do that. Yeah, heat. Yeah, Matthew, You know what, we have some spilled mail
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:57
this is from listener Jennifer who asks, Hi, I was just listening to your episode on supermarket lunches and was super obsessed with the MTM market that Matthew mentioned that he now lives only a few blocks away from. I just wanted any updates on that Matthew shared his thoughts about how maybe one day it did break his heart and go out of business. And I'm hoping that wasn't a foreshadowing, and was also wondering if you all would consider going there for breakfast or lunch one day for an episode. Maybe even just pick up something from there and then share your thoughts more deeply about the store your most favorite spots in the store, etc. Over the pickup lunch. Thanks for the always fun food content, Jenny. Oh,
Molly 36:31
love this.
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:32
Jenny. I'm delighted to report that M tam is still very much in business. They when they opened they said they would have an upstairs food court opening soon. That has not happened yet. I suspect due to staffing issues. But not only is the store wonderful, but I feel like it keeps evolving like the lunch options keep changing. Like I see new products there all the time. It's an absolute delight.
Molly 36:55
I would love to do a takeout lunch episode from there. Let's do it seems to me it could be a tricky place for us to record. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:05
think we're will record in the store but it will we'll make some notes and then we'll we'll talk about what we saw.
Molly 37:10
Okay, sounds good. Sounds good. Thanks for the suggestion. Jenny.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:13
Jenny. Yeah, like thanks for giving us the excuse to just like get in get a nice lunch and Ted talk about it.
Molly 37:18
Yeah, Matthew, what's your snacking?
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:22
Snacking? Gotta tell me what you snack in. Or I'll release the Kraken. So what's your snack in? It is time for me to drive you nuts with us only in Japan stuff and it's gonna start out like mildly annoying and then it's gonna get worse in the next segment. Okay, so I'm snacking on Nishioka bitter granola. And this is an extremely bitter cacao granola according to the label, made with barley, oats, brown rice, whole wheat, soy, corn, almond and dried cranberries. I was a little suspicious about how the dried cranberries would integrate in there, but they're really good. It is like kind of a regular granola with some dark chocolate cornflakes mixed in and I am here for it. I need to go get the bag though because it's a beautiful bag and there's something very funny written on it. Okay, I'll be right do it. Yeah. Isn't that nice?
Molly 38:17
Oh, wow.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:18
For the show, Laurie pick this up for me at the Kinokuniya import market. Although it's not imported,
Molly 38:25
would you actually say that it is bitter Is that Is that a word? You would
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:30
it's it's, it's not very sweet. Okay, you can really taste the bitter cacao that there are two things on the bag I want to note that it says it has both a Soccer Soccer and Zaku Zaku texture these are two different ways of describing describing crispy or crunchiness in Japanese. Okay, automatically give and then it here at the end it's got like their mascot has this little like top hat like Monopoly man kind of guy. And it says their slogan is boys eat granola.
Molly 38:58
No wonder Laurie bought it. Okay, wait a minute, Matthew. Hold on. Yeah, can't you can't mention these like automatic pa like crunchy terms without at least attempting to, like translate them for us. I'm sure they maybe don't exist in
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:15
Okay, so flesh Sokka Sokka is like is like flaky crisp. Or like, like the sound of like, crunching snow kind of. So that's that's like the flake part, I think. And Zakzaky is it's like like a like more crunchy like, like, like a Grape Nuts kind of crunchy or like like a like a, you know, oats, toasted oats granola kind of crunchy. Okay, so I think it is referring to that it's a mix of flakes and oat clusters, Oaxaca Sokoto. Zakzaky
Molly 39:49
That's amazing. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:52
Yeah, so that was really good.
Molly 39:54
I wish we had more words like this.
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:56
This is a very special fee. sure of the Japanese language that it has hundreds and hundreds of onomatopoetic words that are that are widely used and widely understood and are one of the most difficult things for Japanese language learners to pick up.
Molly 40:14
Yeah, I imagine. I mean I'm thinking for instance of the difference between crispy and crunchy which are sort of the only two words we have that convey this this sort of textural phenomenon and I understand the difference Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:30
texture all you broke up there for a second I thought you said spectral phenomenon Yeah, yeah, I saw
Molly 40:40
so many ghosts. No. Yeah. I mean, like crisp being like It's like thin and has almost like a crackly quality like a Lay's potato chip. Crunchy being more like an oat cluster. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:55
But like, imagine if you could say that as Sokka Sokoto Zakzaky. So much better. Yeah. Okay. So de Shoku bitter granola available at some small number of stores in Japan.
Molly 41:11
Okay, perfect. And then you also have an Albert Wow.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:21
This is going to be my most annoying now, but well ever because it is a book available only in Japanese that will not even appeal to most Japanese speakers. So this book is called nice Yogi sompo. And the last couple of times I've been in Japan, we have stayed in this lovely neighborhood called Nishio de Cobo and Western Tokyo, which is a neighborhood known for antique shops, and like old school cafes, and new school cafes, and Italian restaurants, and for just being like a lovely place to take a stroll. So nice Yogi sompo just means strolling in nice Yogi Kubo. And it was written the book is written by Masayo megado, who was born and raised in the neighborhood. But it's it's sort of a it's a love letter to the neighborhood. And the thing I love about it most is first of all, like he mentioned, like 100 places we've been or walked by in the neighborhood, like his love for the neighborhood comes through. He's an illustrator has beautiful, like, like pencil illustrations throughout the book. And the thing I like best about it is it is not at all a book about how like the neighborhood used to be better, like when I was young. And like, you know, here's Here are the ways in which it's gone downhill. Like clearly, too, right? Like, it's like this is a vibrant living neighborhood that is kind of at its best right now, even though he does have fond memories of like places that closed in the past.
Molly 42:46
So why do you say that even most Japanese readers or speakers wouldn't be interested in it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:51
It's literally just a book about some random neighborhood in Tokyo that if you don't have any connection to like, it's hard for me to see like, like what you would get out of this book, necessarily. But like, I don't know, I guess like if you if you like, if, if you imagine like, you know, I've only been to Paris for like a couple of days in my life. But if somebody wrote a lovely book about like a neighborhood in Paris and how wonderful it is to like live or visit there today. I would enjoy that. Oh, yeah. And I will have done this. By the time you hear this. This episode, I went to my favorite tea cafe in the neighborhood saw 10 Which Molly has been there, it's where we got hoji Cha latte matcha lattes. And when I was there, there was a little flyer on the counter for an upcoming event called the nice Yogi Cha sompo. Next weekend, Cha Sapo is like tea walk. And the gist is you walk around the neighborhood and like 40 to 50 different local businesses are serving tea for free. You just like you know, wander around. I don't know if there's gonna be like a passport with stamps, but I certainly hope so. And like they will they will serve you a little cup of tea just just for coming into their shop.
Molly 44:02
And you're gonna do this.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:04
I've never been more excited about any event ever. Like, I'm this brochure. It's like, you know, this is the kind of Kagoshima sentia we'll be serving like at this bookstore, or this stationery shop. Like this was designed like just just to make me happy. Ah, that makes me happy. Okay, so So there so that's an event that will be over that you're not going to go to and a book that you're not going to read. Nice Yogi sompo by masa Mako.
Molly 44:30
Thank you, Matthew. I'm gonna go cry myself to sleep now. All right, our producer is Abby circuit tele
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:36
you can read Molly substack newsletter at Molly weisenberg.substack.com. It's called I've got a feeling and I always get a great feeling when it arrives in my inbox.
Molly 44:46
Oh, thanks. That's true. You can listen to Matthews music like everywhere music is look for his band early to the airport and also his other band Twilight diners. Yep,
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:57
you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. Like, you know if you break into the Nutella factory and people they're listening to spilled milk you can you can rate and review us there. Yeah, absolutely no reason not to. The best way to get your podcast is through espionage is what I'm saying. Yes,
Molly 45:13
indeed. Thanks for listening to spilled milk. This show that is 100% stuff you can't actually eat. That is true. I mean, because you can't have any.
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:23
Yes, that's right. But, but like if you have a factory and you want it and you want to improve productivity, like put our show on really loud, yeah, and feed your workers Nutella. I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
Molly 45:36
And I'm Molly Whitesburg.
We'll just cut this whole part out. That's fine. Great, great. Okay, Abby. Abby will totally figure it out.