Today we confess that we just aren't that into it as we debate who is the student and who is the teacher. What kind of school is this!? Matthew puts on his NPR voice and Pliny the Elder makes a cameo appearance along with horses (of courses). After encounters with knobbly roots and mischievous elves we eventually suggest our listeners do some work for us.
Matthew Now but Wow! - Hot and Sour Suspects by Vivien Chien
Speaker 1 0:00
Hi I'm Molly And
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:05
I'm Matthew and this is spilled milk the
Molly 0:07
show where we cook something delicious eat it all
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:09
and you can't have any and today we're talking about horseradish
Molly 0:13
Today's episode was suggested by listener Nicole and listener to
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:17
Cole I hope we do an okay job here because I think possibly neither of us has much of an opinion about horseradish but we're gonna do our best Yeah,
Molly 0:25
no, I this is a tricky one because it's snowing. It kind of looks a little like it's snowing. So I wanted to do this because I wanted to learn more about horseradish. And of course, I think probably the majority of the horseradish I've eaten is actually in the form of wasabi. Yeah, we'll
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:41
talk about that. But yeah, just
Molly 0:43
a heads up. This is one of those episodes where Matthew and I are are just like not not that or we're just not that into it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:52
The teacher has become the student and now both of us are the student. We have no teacher and the class
Molly 1:00
is running wild class is totally out of control each other wedgies but not eating any horseradish like they're supposed to.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:09
School. This is this is this what Montessori This is?
Molly 1:16
The education. This is the pedagogy that I'm a product of you wonder how I got this one. It's
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:21
all it's all based on horseradish and wedgies. That's right. It's just the way Maria Montessori wanted. That's right. Okay,
Molly 1:29
so Matthew, okay, I just want to say my parents always had a jar of horseradish. I'm sure my into the refrigerator door. I remember my dad using it occasionally. But like, you know, for things like something he'd be making for himself for lunch on the weekend. Oh, like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:47
put on a sandwich right away. Yeah.
Molly 1:49
I also remember my parents having some dinner party with some fancy cut of beef, maybe as a beef tenderloin or so or maybe a standing rib roast maybe and making horseradish whipped cream.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:02
I came across horseradish whipped cream while I was researching. I think you're right. That's what it was.
Molly 2:07
Yeah. And anyway, so you know, I I thought that horseradish was something that only like parents of a certain generation eat. However, my spouse really likes horseradish. I think it's a horseradish mustard. Okay. That they have bought and put on their sandwiches is bizarre. All right, anyway,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:28
yeah. Same here. Like I think I think probably this is a thing that that my parents ate and probably particularly my dad like, and I was I was afraid of it. Not like I knew it was like spicy or it make your nose tingle. But I think it was like, it seemed like a creamy thing that came out of the fridge and I was not about that. I guess
Molly 2:47
I never even thought of it as being creamy. I mean, that's What's so weird about it. Get to that. Yeah, I think I think visually as a kid, I tended to confuse it with the little jar of minced garlic. That sure cap Yeah, the fridge door.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:02
How that 10 member of minced garlic. What a like an 80s 90s. Now I know we get the one from Costco that was huge. Oh, wow.
Molly 3:11
Would you guys also get the big canister of already peeled garlic cloves. Not
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:15
that I remember. I think like pretty much all the garlic that got used unless there was some I don't think my mom ever made like, you know, leg of lamb with 40 cloves of garlic. Is that what the recipe is something like chicken chicken reporting closer garlic. Oh, it's like seven hour leg of lamb. So there you go. I like it. The best recipes are the ones with an improbably large number. So, no, I remember that, like all of our garlic was in the jar.
Molly 3:43
Yeah. Yeah. I think ours was too. Yeah, it was fine. Yeah. Fine.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:48
Not bad. Okay, so would you like to hear a little bit about what horseradish is? Yeah, okay. Yeah,
Molly 3:54
yeah. What
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:55
is this? Yeah, cuz I was confused about like, what what's in that jar that sits in the fridge door and we'll get to that but let's start with what the plant is. Okay. So unsurprisingly, horseradish is a plant in the same family as mustard, radishes and wasabi that's the brassica Casey Family, which is also famous for brussel sprouts, cabbage, kale, that sort of thing. And it is probably native to western Asia and southeastern Europe and has been used in the cuisines and the traditional medicine of those areas for a really long time. Okay, like you can find 12th century writings from like Ashkenazi Jewish literature referring to horseradish Wow, okay. According to Wikipedia quote, intact horseradish root has little aroma when cut are graded enzymes from within the plant cells digest sinigrin a glucose into late to produce allyl isothiocyanate Wait
Molly 4:51
a minute, hold on Matthew, You got to pronounce these again, because it's so impressive. I want the listeners to hear it again.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:56
But what if i What if it was a fluke? Yeah, no, do it again.
Molly 4:59
Okay, okay, enzymes
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:01
from within the plant cells digest sinigrin A glue constantly to produce allyl isothiocyanate mustard oil, which irritates the mucous membranes of the sinuses and eyes. Once exposed to error heat horseradish loses its pungency, darkens in color and develops a bitter flavor.
Molly 5:18
Wow. Okay. This is so interesting. Okay, so it's a route Did you see a picture of any of them like on Wikipedia? Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:28
and these sell the fresh route like at the supermarket so the times kind of
Molly 5:33
look like does it look like Daikon or does it looked more like ginger? Like does it does it have I guess a skin that you have to peel has a
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:41
skin and utensil it's chunkier than ginger but not as chunky as Daikon I would
Molly 5:45
say okay, okay, but chunky mean thick.
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:48
I mean thick with two C's.
Molly 5:49
That's right. Okay, so yeah, it's graded,
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:55
it's graded and then like so. So the stuff in a jar when you get prepared horseradish is what they always call it in a jar. It's usually just graded horseradish is like like finely graded with vinegar and sometimes like a little bit of sugar or preservatives or something like that. Okay, because
Molly 6:11
yeah, it holds its color. Its whiteness pretty well. Yeah, it's because of those preservatives. Yep. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:18
And so if historically speaking, obviously Pliny the Elder got in on the horse radish accent, right did accuracy to action accent is and then on. And he's dendrites. Were both fired at work. So Wikipedia again, quote, horseradish is probably the plant mentioned by Pliny the Elder in his natural history under the name of Omer, Raisa and recommended by him for its medicinal qualities. Hmm. Okay. So Native Americans used horseradish as a treatment for the common cold and a scurvy preventative and is high in vitamin C. And the thing I thought was interesting about this is that horseradish was was brought to North America by European colonization. And I think like, when we talk about traditional traditional foods and remedies of, of Native American peoples, like we often think of this as like a thing that stopped at colonization, but like, you know, like every civilization like, you know, Native American civilizations, continue to say, Okay, we've got we've got some new stuff. Let's let's fit that into, you know, our existing framework. Like it was not it was not a static thing. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Mr. Etymology is knocking. Oh, wait. Oh, come
Molly 7:34
on. Yes. Okay. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:41
So this one is, it was like more simple than I expected. At least the word horse radish horse is an archaic English prefix meaning strong or coarse like horse chestnut. horse radish, just like a strong radish. Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Molly 7:56
Wait a minute horse. Chet, what is a horse chestnut,
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:59
a horse a choice. We all have a choice to make and live. Horse chestnut. It's like, I think I want to say the chestnuts like fall off trees around around Seattle or horse chestnuts. They're like non edible chestnuts. Well, they're spiky on the outside, but I think all chestnuts are spiky on the outside. But I don't think you I don't think you can eat the ones that grow on trees around here. You I have no idea. Yeah, I don't think so. So a horse chestnut is like as chestnut that's too strong to eat.
Molly 8:30
It's I
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:30
have a horse can eat.
Molly 8:32
I haven't thought of the word horse chestnut in a long time. But there is so horses have these like I don't even know what they are. They look. They're like natural parts of their legs.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:43
Like hooves
Molly 8:45
that look like a funny like scab or it's almost like it's almost like the texture of a dog's paw. Okay. And they're called chestnuts. All right. And so those are on a horse's leg. Wow.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:58
So there's more than one kind of horse chestnut? Yeah, what can you think of some other words that have horses a prefix? How about horse play?
Molly 9:04
Oh, yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:05
I figured that just means like playing like really? Yes. As horses do. Playing course like coarsely. What about a horse feathers?
Molly 9:14
Nope. Nope. What about horse?
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:19
Well, wait. A horse divorce. Yes. Okay.
Molly 9:26
That's one nowadays course divorce divorce divorce.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:32
Okay. Got some scars, and no one can divorce or so.
Molly 9:40
Wow. So okay, so horseradish is just a really strong rad Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:44
And it's not literally a radish, but it's in the same family. So in proto Slavic, the word was something like Crenn which, which survives is the word for horse be as we've said
Molly 9:55
that you really put yourself into it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:59
did really well. No.
Molly 10:01
Microphone do I do that a
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:03
lot go on. And that survives is the word for horseradish in modern Yiddish, Polish, Czech, Russian and many other languages from that part of the world Crenn Crenn. And, and like so and Crenn like is usually used to mean like a prepared horseradish. And in some countries that often has beet root added. So it's so it's like, foolish. Yes,
Molly 10:24
yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so so prepared. Horseradish is great. And horseradish vinegar and a little bit of salt and sugar. And that is what what we had in like, the little jar. Sometimes they'll get a squeeze bottle. Yeah, for sure. Right. Okay, and so what do people do with it? Like they use it as a condiment? Yeah. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:45
like with with me with fish on a sandwich, like it's kind of a classic roast beef sandwich thing? Yeah, fish. Yes.
Molly 10:54
I mean, it's
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:55
the classic conduit that goes with give filter fish. Oh, I
Molly 10:58
didn't know that. Okay, a
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:00
thing like I've never had and I'm scared. I've never had it and I'm also scared okay, let's do an episode
this could be what what Ash is buying to use to use on their sandwiches, according to Wikipedia quote, also available in the UK is Tewkesbury mustard, a blend of mustard and grated horseradish, originating in medieval times and mentioned by Shakespeare Falstaff says quote, his wits is thick is Tewkesbury mustard and Henry the fourth part two. We've
Molly 11:37
recently mentioned Tewkesbury in an episode but I have did Yes we did. Wow. came up as a as a place that was the center of something. Okay. I mean, it was like a lot of stuff was something we might have mastered episode. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:55
okay. Wow. Yes. Who would have thought that was gonna pop up again? I thought we dealt with this Tewkesbury.
Molly 12:05
Oh, interesting. Well, okay. Tewkesbury mustard. Well, interesting, I guess is all mustard made in Tewkesbury. In the world No, no, but is it all horseradish mustard?
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:14
I don't know. Don't okay. We have we have listeners in that part of the world by which I mean Tewkesbury and I expect there will send us an email contact. It's build mug podcast.com and let us know is all Tewkesbury mustard. horseradish mustard. Have
Molly 12:29
you seen Enola Holmes? No, I have it. Okay, so the Marquess of Tewkesbury Oh Who is her like romantic counterpart?
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:40
So he's like a mustard man.
Molly 12:42
He's mustard. Yeah. Ah, okay. So on the Bloody Mary episode, we could have used horseradish right but did you buy it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:52
I bought it then where is it? It sat in the fridge for a while and then I threw it out. Okay. And I remember I made a homemade Bloody Mary and I put in too much horseradish and it was bad. Remember this? Oh, no, I don't remember this. Okay.
Molly 13:05
I I feel like you're gonna remember that we did a Bloody Mary. J. Okay. So you don't
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:11
remember that? We did a Blackberry episode. But you remember that we talked about Tewkesbury? Yes.
Molly 13:15
Well, because I think I researched that one. Okay, that makes sense. So horseradish is commonly mixed with mayo, right? I wonder if that's what Ash has.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:24
That could be Yeah. And yeah, so that makes like creamy horseradish. Okay. And I suspect that's what the horsey sauce at Arby's is. I didn't look this up because I just remembered like, just just before we sat down to record this episode, we had a minor emergency when I said I forgot to say anything about horsey sauce on the agenda. And like all the horsey sauce people are gonna write in
Molly 13:48
Yeah, and I was like, quick, Matthew, grab a pen. Write it down. You can't forget that
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:52
is that is actually what you said. Yeah, I assume horsey sauce like we already know horse as a prefix means course so it's like it's like regular E sauce but coarser.
Molly 14:02
Do you think that I could say like so to go back to the end that you want to go back to the Mr. Ed theme song? A horse is a horse of horse of horse. What? A horse is a horse? Because Because a horse is a horse of course. Means course. That's
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:21
right.
Molly 14:23
Could I also say a course is a course of horse of course.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:26
You could say that. Yes. And people say like a popular saying is horses for courses. But you could just say horses for horses. Right? Or courses for
Molly 14:36
voting for in this election cycle horses for
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:42
these are like some sort of some sort of like, like species centric horse party. Okay. Yeah. All right. I
Molly 14:48
mean, I was voting for my dog Gilbert. All right, whose slogan which he coined himself is good boy. Gibby.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:57
Okay, yeah. Oh, by that Yeah, but
Molly 14:59
Oh, I'm quoting horses for horses is
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:02
is your son also running? And if so, what's his slug?
Molly 15:04
Oh no, it's it's only animals this time. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:07
you're right horse it for horses. It's a very it's very catchy slogan. It's got it's got sort of sort of an authoritarian rate to it. But you know that seems to be popular these days strength It sure does. Yeah, that's right because like you're strong first strong they'll kick like horses will kick you like a horse. That's right. That's right. Have you ever been kicked by a horse?
Molly 15:29
I've never been kicked by a horse glad I've had my foot stepped on. wasn't as bad as I expected. But you better believe I very quickly set to work pushing them off my foot. Yeah, okay, Matthew, here's another moment where we get to be regrettably under informed Jews. Oh, for sure. What's this part?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:50
Okay, so in the Passover Seder, you need bitter herbs as part of the Passover story and horseradish usually serves as the bitter herbs myrrh Great, yeah. Now that I think brings us to wasabi. So you mentioned that you've you've mostly had horseradish in the form of wasabi That's right. So and you're right so like much of what we are served as wasabi like in in like an American sushi place or like if you have some like in your fridge at home like that you got into cheap tube there is a real plant called wasabi that's in the same family but but not is not the same species as horseradish But mostly what you get is powdered horseradish mixed with mustard oil and water ah okay so and food coloring to make it great
Molly 16:36
so in like your just your standard sushi restaurant what you're getting is horseradish powder mixed with this stuff. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:43
so like if you get like a very smooth lump of something like you know goes up your nose and makes you pant that's that is going to be horseradish most of the time. I think we should do a whole wasabi episode I think it would be interesting because like I knew there was such a thing as like real fresh wasabi and it even like had it once or twice. It has to be freshly grated for it to really make a difference. Like you can you can spend more and get like real wasabi in a tube but like it's not going to be any different really
Molly 17:14
what does it look like?
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:16
It's like a like a thin knobbly rhizome so like like a twisty twisty knobbly route
Molly 17:24
and when you when it's graded so when it was served to you what what did what did that look like?
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:29
Like like a pile of like green graded stuff? Okay. I think I mentioned this on the show I had it in Shizuoka with with a humbug so like a little lamb burger patty. It was fantastic. Like like I was like okay, I get it like this is really like a special food.
Molly 17:51
How would you compare like the aroma of it or the feeling of it in your like in your sinuses? How would you compare that to the like the cheap tube wasabi,
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:01
I would say it's a little bit the real stuff is a little bit milder and much more complex in flavor. Interesting. Oh, I
Molly 18:08
would love to try it. And
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:09
they grow wasabi like on the Oregon coast. And so I think and I think they carry it at a water Maya so I think we can get it and try it.
Molly 18:19
Okay, and so if you were to serve it to us, well actually, no, no.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:24
I don't have a good answer for that yet. And we'll figure it out before the wasabi episode.
Molly 18:28
I almost said we'll save it for the Wikipedia.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:30
Save it for the Wikipedia episode. Where finally like we
Molly 18:34
finally we taste week. I I've wanted to for a long time.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:40
All right, anything else you want to add about? Horse? ravish?
Molly 18:43
Um, you know, I don't think so. I mean, I understand I really like the idea of having something that has these qualities. Yeah, with something that's really rich or with Bs especially I think it appeals to me, but there's something about it that I don't know even if I were at somebody's like fancy dinner situation. I don't know if I would like put a blob of it on my plate. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:14
would kind of it's one of these things that I kind of don't want to do myself like I mean I would blob it myself but I want I want someone else to be in charge of like here's the thing you you eat the horseradish with and here's the horseradish I'm providing you and
Molly 19:27
by providing you do you want them to put it in your mouth for you? Yeah, whether
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:31
whether to use like a syringe. Oh, word it directly or a turkey baster. Squirt it directly into my mouth. Yeah, you probably need like that size hole. I need that size hole. Yes. Not not one of those like really tiny syringes. No, no, not like not like, you know, like when you're if you're getting like a vaccine like, I want I want like a larger quantity, I think right? Okay, but it's still like, you want it to fill your mouth. I wanted to fill you I wanted to fill my mouth Like what kind of party is this? All right. You know, we have a bunch of spilled mail that I forgot to put on the agenda. So let me let me pull it up and read. Okay.
Molly 20:19
Okay, so this week's spilled milk comes from listener Courtney. I just enjoyed listening to your advent calendar episode. At the end, you expressed interest in learning more detail about the Nordic advent calendar programs. I'm happy to help even there's even an exclamation point. Yeah, she's so helpful. My father is from Norway. And though I've spent most of my life in the States, I spent part of my childhood living there and I speak the language. To this day, my parents and I regularly watch programming online from NRK, the national TV network in Norway, and one of the highlights of their December programming is the daily Advent program called Oh, boy, get ready. You look, you look calendar in the christmas calendar. I believe they have been producing the shows for several decades. Though I only have vague memories of a season when I was a kid. I think it was pretty cheesy and low budget featuring a family of mischievous little elves. In more recent years, the seasons I've seen have been really excellent. In each one, the protagonist is typically a child around age 10, give or take. The stories typically have a real world element and a magical slash fantasy world element. One thing I find really interesting about these shows is how they're different from much American entertainment produced for children. For example, the villains of the stories are typically not portrayed as evil but rather fallible humans that give way to the common faults of jealousy, fear, selfishness, self pity, misunderstandings, social awkwardness, emotional wounds, et cetera. They slowly dig themselves deeper into trouble and at the culmination of the story when everything unravels, they are given understanding and forgiveness rather than punishment. This is so unAmerican. Isn't
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:02
that nice? They feel like when when we inevitably become villains, it will definitely be by sliding down a path that begins with social awkwardness.
Molly 22:11
I think we've already done it. The protagonist overcome their obstacles through friendship, persistence, and hope. And though each series has a happy ending, the big problems of life don't magically disappear. Like family members who've died illness and divorced parents. They do a really amazing job of balancing difficult realities that many children face with magic and fun and festivity. I'm moving to Norway, right? Yeah, sounds great. One thing I really appreciate is that romance is never at the center of the stories, but rather friendship no matter what the gender of the central characters. Yes, Norway, and the casting and writing are very inclusive with characters of myriad ethnicities, family structures and sexual identities. Can you tell I'm a fan?
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:55
This is so much better than I expected it to be.
Molly 22:58
This is amazing. Okay, just a little bit more. Okay. I was thrilled to learn last year that they had created a sequel to my favorite season called snowfall, and we'll post the link in the show notes. That series had the most delightful representation of Uranus. I don't know if I'm pronouncing this right. The Norwegian version of Santa Claus. Oh, like I you will elf? Yes, there we go. As well as the most quirky and hilarious villains. Nearly all of the cast returned for the sequel with the kids at the center of the first story returning as more peripheral teenage characters, there was a new group of kids at the heart of the new story. We'll link to that one too. It did not disappoint. Sadly, the series is only in Norwegian. If I knew how I would gladly create English subtitles for these two series so that all of my friends and family could enjoy it. It really is that wonderful.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:49
Okay, well, I will say like, translating subtitles is a lot of work. Actually, once you have the translation, like creating a subtitle file to go with a video file is not that hard.
Molly 24:02
Oh, Matthew, are you volunteering your services?
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:05
I mean, like, if, if listener Courtney were to like send me the translation. Like I would create the subtitle file listener coordinator you hearing. I mean, I obviously I'm like asking a listener Courtney to do 95%
Molly 24:19
Do you think that this will be ready in time for Christmas?
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:22
I mean, that's I guess that's up to listener Courtney. Oh, I
Molly 24:25
can't wait to find out. All right. We'll see. Matthew, do you have a now but wow. I sure do.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:37
I was just at my local branch of Seattle Public Library, our wonderful local library system and they had a display of culinary mysteries, and I picked one up called Hot and Sour suspect by Vivian Chen. And this is a delightful cozy mystery from Vivian Chan's noodle shop mystery series and it's set set in like a like a Chinese American family. Like that runs a restaurant and I can't remember exactly where it's at, but it's like in the Midwest, okay, I'm really enjoying it so far. Other books of the series include egg drop dead and fatal fried rice. Delicious.
Molly 25:10
Our producer is Abby, sir Catella Molly
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:14
has a newsletter that's called I've got a feeling and you should subscribe or read about now at Molly weisenberg.substack.com. Matthew
Molly 25:22
makes music he has two bands as of this recording. They are called Twilight dinars and early to the airport. You can find them wherever you find music, so Bandcamp, Spotify, Apple Music and lots of other plugs
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:38
of other places. Yeah, you can hang out with other listeners of this show at everything spilled. milk.reddit.com where you can talk about other other words that start with horse,
Molly 25:49
please. We want to know. Also, are you voting for horses for horses? Or are you voting for Gilbert?
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:56
Wow, this is going to be this is gonna be a tough year.
Molly 25:59
I mean, I just want to put it out there that Gilbert is not the most reliable dog so but
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:05
horses are but like, if you've got a problem, he'll eat it.
Molly 26:09
That's true. That's true. And that's the slogan and then he will look at you like what he's thinking is good boy up. There
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:15
we go. Until next time, thank you for listening to spilled milk. I'm the horse Amster-Burton
Molly 26:22
and I am Molly wise and horse
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:36
that's true because then they can correct us.
Molly 26:38
There is nothing the human race loves more than Correct. Yeah, that's true. But not like big mistakes only like a little pointless mistakes. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:48
Like yeah, he's he's spelled river with two V's.
Molly 26:55
Yep, yep. Okay. All right. All right. So
Transcribed by https://otter.ai