Today we're synonymous with the product and we go wild with reconstituting and brewing these dehydrated coffee crystals. Molly tries to off-road Memory Lane before Matthew decides to vibe on spice rubs. We decide "if you got it, use it" as we recount days of April Fool's past.
Molly's Whatcha Snackin - Paloma
Matthew's Now but Wow! - Everything I Learned, I Learned in a Chinese Restaurant by Curtis Chin
Molly 0:00
Hi I'm Molly And I'm Matt. And this is spilled milk the show where we cook something delicious eat it all and you can't have
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:10
any and today we are talking about espresso powder. That's
Molly 0:14
right so I think we suggested this Yeah, I don't really remember why or how
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:21
Yeah, I think it's I think maybe I did because like I was making an episode making an episode I was having an episode where I was baking something that were once again I had to go to the store and get an expensive jar of Medallia d'Oro espresso powder and I was like, What is this stuff? Yeah, maybe I can make Molly research it well
Molly 0:39
and we should be clear too that we're not so we're not like going to be tasting a broad range of instant espresso products that I like to actually make a beverage
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:50
no this is this is the product that most people get for cooking I think for baking which is
Molly 0:56
Medallia d'Oro brand so we are about to taste it here. Brewed you can't even say brewed reconstituted for tooted form. But you know there are tons of products out there that that I think people don't necessarily by for baking but by for drinking even like Blue Bottle instant espresso.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:17
I didn't know this existed. The agenda Yeah,
Molly 1:20
Blue Bottle coffee in San Francisco. You can buy a little glass jar of their instant espresso for $25.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:27
Oh, and I will $5 Oh,
Molly 1:31
I know. But so we're not going to be talking about you know, like which one we like best when we're backpacking, which I know Matthew does all the time.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:38
I do that all the time. I just I just got back from packing. I just got back from packing my way along the Pacific Crest Trail. I went wild. Wow. Did you did you see Cheryl stream and Cheryl straight I met a bear. Oh wow. Those are now my two best friends. Oh, man. This is so cool. Yeah. And if you're wondering like if you're in the woods, would you rather meet me or a bear? I'm probably a bear. No,
Molly 2:01
I'd rather meet you. Yeah, sweet. Yeah. Okay, so what we're talking about here is Medallia d'Oro. You've probably seen it it's a little glass jar with a kelly green lid. And we bring it over Yeah, bring it over. The label is you know the colors of the Italian flag. It's it's red, white and green striped. I feel like it's looked this way. Since the very first time I ever saw me too.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:25
And like it doesn't just have like Medallia door obviously means gold medal and Italian it doesn't have one gold medal on the label. It has 11 gold medals.
Molly 2:33
It is really show off. Here it is. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:37
this is this is not a humble product. And
Molly 2:39
this is like what like a two ounce jar. I think it retails for 799. That sounds right. Yeah, I think you can get it on Amazon for much cheaper. But why would you want to? Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:49
I mean, the whole point is you're you're making your brownie recipe or something and you're like, oh, I need to go buy some of that espresso powder again. That's right. So you got to run out in every supermarket. Matthew,
Molly 3:00
so when did you first encounter this?
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:03
So it must have been like when I was making I think I knew about it when I was a kid because it was an ingredient my mom Judy Amster would use in baking and OMalley just took a sip and I can tell from her face that this is her favorite coffee I've heard
Molly 3:21
it's kind of worse than I thought it would be.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:23
I think it was kind of exactly what I thought it would be really I've never
Molly 3:27
I mean I think we I think we've had instant coffee on the show before it tastes
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:31
like like instant coffee
Molly 3:33
but it's just so bad that I just I think I'd forgotten how bad Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:39
well I mean well yeah, we'll get there on memory lane you just like reached out with a hook and like and like pulled me off of memory lane and back to reality and it was very
Molly 3:48
jarring. I'm sorry. Okay, so Judy Amster used it in something
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:53
Yeah, probably probably a brownie or cookie recipe and so I always knew that it was like a thing that you put in a little of to to enhance the chocolate flavor or to make like a coffee or Mocha flavored baked good and have bought it many times since and like I was trying to think of other products where like there's really only one brand like not like you said there are other other brands have like instant espresso for drinking but if you're buying the thing for baking it's going to be this brand and this is the brand you're going to find in the supermarket. The only other one I could come up with like this where like one brand is synonymous with the product was Underwood deviled ham I've never heard of I don't think I've ever bought but I certainly know what it is. Kleenex. Kleenex. Yeah,
Molly 4:36
there you go. But like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:38
if you can, you can get other versions of like, I usually buy the store brand Kleenex. like Kleenex like the brand name is synonymous with it, but it's not like the only one you can get this is kind of the only one that's right. Yeah. Okay. Okay, like the way that you get like in the baking aisle,
Molly 4:55
or is it only one? I don't know. I don't know. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:59
don't No well anyway yeah
Molly 5:01
anyway yes it is interesting that this pretty much shows up in that well no actually when I'm thinking of like Ballard market for instance where you know where I've shopped off and on for 13 years, I think this is on the coffee. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:14
think it is on the coffee I was wrong. Okay, I want
Molly 5:17
to dive into talking about this but I do first want to say that I remember when I first started liking coffee as a teenager Sure. My dad went out and bought you know, this was an Oklahoma City and probably the early or mid 90s He went out and bought like a canister of Medallia d'Oro espresso ground espresso okay to brew at home. Oh, like an espresso machine.
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:45
So like, can you still get Do they still sell Medallia d'Oro? Like coffee grounds?
Molly 5:49
I don't know if they still do, but they did then because I remember that. That was what he bought. I think later he switched to Ely brand. Sure, but at the time, I remember him. I remember the canister of Medallia d'Oro, and I remember him like brewing it in his espresso machine. But all this to say I also remember my mom using the instant version because there was a period of time I think whenever it was that mocha became a flavor of desserts that showed up a lot in the US this would have been whenever I don't know I think of it as synonymous with sort of that period of like Northern Italian popularity, even though Mocha is not a northern
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:35
did like the Mocha flavor thing predate like Starbucks becoming a thing or was it around the same time? I don't know. Around mocha earlier.
Molly 6:45
I think it was a little earlier because I remember also the idea of a cappuccino. I think predated
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:53
Starbuck, I love to drink the idea of a cappuccino is so light and refreshing.
Molly 6:59
Anyway, but all this to say I remember becoming enamored with Mocha desserts.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:04
Oh, they're the I still love mocha desserts. They're
Molly 7:08
the bad. No, they're really, really good. Yeah, I think my mom made some sort of cookies maybe that used however, she was using the espresso powder, as you know, just a chocolate flavor enhancer. But there's this recipe and we can link to it. I've typed it up. It's on Google Drive. It is a recipe that I ran on orangette A million years ago like literally almost 20 years ago. It is a recipe for for Madeleine's mocha Madeleine Yes. And it comes from from a family friend in Oklahoma. It is a fantastic recipe. That said I think it uses brewed coffee, but I always thought of it like when I went and pulled it up yesterday. I could have sworn it used espresso powder. But we're gonna do it anyway. But we'll do it anyway. But anyway, I remember you could you
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:01
could easily substitute your coffee like reconstituted coffee that you made with espresso powder.
Molly 8:06
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Which we'll talk about more in a minute. Yeah, I think this is something that you know I think of as always being in my parents pantry for baking purposes. That
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:17
reminds me I forgot to put this on the agenda but one use of this that I've seen recommended recently was we recently made tiramisu which was kind of a disaster was we got like the wrong kind of of lady fingers and so they they soak soaked up too much rum and so there was like a gross like bottom like like sludge layer like the glue part was still was still good but did
Molly 8:41
you get lady fingers that were like kind of cakey as opposed to like the DRY DRY
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:47
DRY crunchy ones Okay, so now we have those and we're gonna redeem ourselves okay, but I saw it in cooks illustrated in there tiramisu recipe recommends since since it's expensive to to get like 12 shots of espresso for your for your terribIe to get 12 ounces of brewed coffee and and then add a couple of teaspoons of espresso powder. Oh,
Molly 9:09
it's smart right? That's really smart. I was when I was doing research for this episode. I came upon the the dealer NT website dealer and T being like an Italian high end Italian specialty store got the good lady fingers. Yeah. Okay. Well on the dealer NT website, they you know, they sell Medallia d'Oro, and one of the uses they recommend for it is as the coffee component or the espresso component in tiramisu. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:35
and I imagine probably when people make tiramisu at home in Italy, that's probably what they use. They do I imagine so this tastes so bad, but like, I don't think you're going to notice really, when is once it's mixed with a ton of cream. Okay,
Molly 9:51
I mean, maybe you're right. When I made tiramisu for us, right, I did go to my local Coffee Shop and I got decaf espresso. And that's what I did too. And I think they charged me 50 cents a shot, which wasn't bad. Yeah, but still that's like what six or $7? Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. Anyway, all this to say I don't know if I would want to use Medallia d'Oro, like straight but I would consider doing like brewing. brewing some good coffee at home. Yeah.
So let's talk about what this stuff is, please. So it's a fine powdered form of espresso. And I think if we want to be even more specific about it, it's not just espresso roast coffee beans that are ground really no, because like freeze dried or something. Yeah, so it's tiny coffee crystals, like any other instant coffee, and they're designed to dissolve quickly in liquid. However, it's, I believe, a much more concentrated version than like a regular instant coffee.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:02
Okay, now I'm wondering like, how do they make it more constant? Yeah, I
Molly 11:05
feel a little confused on this. Because I mean, just just to make sure we're all on the same page here, like espresso versus coffee. It's not only a difference in how they're brewed. Right, right. It's also the roast like an espresso roast, particularly dark roast. So it makes me wonder if you know, in the way that these crystals are made, is that a darker roast as well? Maybe. Anyway, I found a website, which we can also link to in the show notes where you can make your
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:36
own. Oh, that sounds like a chore.
Molly 11:39
I know. It sounds really, really like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:44
Well, how do you do it? Well,
Molly 11:45
it's very easy, though. Okay, so here's the deal. You can take either like used espresso grounds, okay, or just ground espresso coffee beans, and you lay them out on a little, you know, a little rimmed pan and you roast them at low heat like 200 for a while for like, two like an hour. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:05
think, if this is going to produce a different, then you grind them very finely,
Molly 12:10
do you think it would would produce a different thing? Well, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:13
think well, like in the sense that if you then try to reconstitute with that with liquid there would be like sediment. I think you're right. But for baking, I'm sure it works fine.
Molly 12:21
So yeah, we'll link to that. It's from a website called Coffee. affection.com. And okay, and I feel like if you've got, you know, if you got a lot of time on your hands, and you got some espresso grounds that you've just used to make your morning coffee. Why am I why not two
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:38
things I've time and used espresso craft. That's right. And I've been trying to figure out what to do with my life.
Molly 12:45
So anyway, I don't really know why I'd want to do that. I use this so infrequently. But all this to say like Matthew smell this stuff, so I'm opening the jar of Medallia d'Oro. It literally smells like nothing.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:58
Yeah, I mean, it smells like instant coffee.
Molly 13:02
But like if I were going to make tiramisu.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:06
Are you seriously like dumping it on my rug?
Molly 13:10
I just spilled it everywhere. Right here. I'm gonna put it in the cup because I'm gonna drink that anyway. I don't know. No, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:18
agree. Probably if you use just this, the flavor would end up coming out pretty flat.
Molly 13:23
Here's the deal. Basically, it's not ideal for actually like drink. No, it is not right. But it's great for baking and also in spice rubs. Many like meat spice rubs, you know, add coffee type vibe, or Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:39
I do. I think about meat spice rubs a lot. And vibes. Yeah, I just vibe out. Well, thinking about spice rubs,
Molly 13:47
you could also use this stuff in there. So you know used in small quantities, what it does is basically kind of enhance the flavor of chocolate used in larger quantities. It's going to add actual coffee flavor.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:01
I do have to say like, occasionally I will make like a friend of the show Kenji Lopez alts like oven baked pulled pork, or like a Cook's Illustrated rib recipe where you do get to like, rub some stuff all over some meat that is really satisfying. Well,
Molly 14:17
maybe next time you're gonna want to use a maybe so espresso power. So you know, believe it or not, Matthew, this is gonna shock you. But there are other companies that make this stuff.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:26
Okay, so what I said before about how it's kind of the only one turns out to be false. Yeah,
Molly 14:30
yeah. Okay, so even Nescafe now has like an espresso line. Okay, I'd be curious to see how it smells or tastes compared to this stuff.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:40
Yeah. I'm gonna guess kind of the same. But yeah, William
Molly 14:43
Sonoma now sells their own espresso powder because of course they do. The company DeLallo also sells it. And then of
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:51
course DeLallo the ones that wrote white noise. I don't get it. I'd jog Red Dawn to Lila
Molly 14:59
Oh, yeah, something like that. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:03
have not read that book. Neither, but it was this for all of our literary minded.
Molly 15:12
Yeah, you know, basically, if you've got it, use it, no matter if you don't got it, get it. You could use instant coffee. Oh, frankly, too, you're just gonna want to maybe use a little bit more than the amount
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:28
you would use of us. But I like I like that our new slogan seems to be if you got it, use it. That's right. And you got it.
Molly 15:35
So Matthew, now that you got it, what you're going to use it for?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:39
Oh, I'm really like, I think it never hurts to put a little of this in a like a brownie or like chocolate chocolate chip cookie recipe. Those are really the things that I that I think of okay, but you know, I love making homemade chocolate pudding. And I don't think I've ever tried putting a little of this in there. But I think it would be really good.
Molly 16:03
I think it'd be very good. Do you think you would put in like just a scant amount to amplify the chocolate?
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:08
I'd put in like a pound. Okay. Okay,
Molly 16:10
good. Okay, so you're gonna need like a
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:13
jars. Yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna, I'm gonna call it the $50 Pudding.
Unknown Speaker 16:20
Okay, it's good.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:23
solid block that you have to slice or it's gonna be it's gonna be like a mountain that you have to like everybody's gonna lean in and like lick it.
Molly 16:34
Speaking of solid things made from coffee. So we don't usually do April Fool's in my household but a couple of years ago June and ash got this idea. I think it was June's. At the time. We were usually making coffee using an arrow press. You know, like a little puck of coffee grounds come when you're done. It's a pretty compressed little puck. So they saved like one or two of those pucks and then like frosted it with sour they froze it and then frosted it with sour cream and then like tried to present it to me as like a little mini cake.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:12
Did you cuz you like did you spot the graft a mile away? I did. I did. Like why are you
Molly 17:19
doing this? Yeah, like what's this tiny cake in the freezer? And why is it covered in white stuff with specks in it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:28
Great, great work everybody. So
Molly 17:31
hey, that's what you can do with your your
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:34
coffee. If my family dried to April Fool's me I'd be so mad. Really? Yeah, cuz cuz I think I think we all hate it. Oh,
Molly 17:42
I hate it too. Did I tell you about the time that June tried to trick me. June June has gone through a couple of legs sort of a trickster
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:49
know like a kid a kid who's really bad at tricking people trying to trick me I would love that you
Molly 17:54
would love the one that I've told you about the one with the food coloring haven't I think so? Yeah, we're showing it again. She decided she wanted she told ash this that she wanted to put red food coloring on my toothbrush. And I think this is a very bad idea. Don't do it. But June decided to do it anyway. But the thing is, is so we keep the food coloring and one of the cabinets over the countertop. Okay. And Jun had to climb up on the countertop to get the food coloring down and somehow spilled it and then in an effort. She never made it out of the kitchen but in an effort to clean it up. Basically, she wiped up the spill, but then got like red handprints like the face of the cabinets below the countertop. It was amazing. It
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:52
was like mom a serial killers loose April Fool's.
Molly 18:58
Wow, it was pretty great.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:59
Did you ever make it to the toothbrush? Oh, no. She
Molly 19:03
never made the kitchen. Yeah, it was colossal fail and very funny. That is really funny. Anyway, okay, but so espresso powder. I don't think I've actually ever put it in brownies. Yeah, it's good. Okay. Yeah, I believe Yeah, I believe you. I've definitely used it in chocolate cake. And I look forward to maybe trying it you know, to enhance some coffee for tiramisu. Yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:31
I think I'm going to try that. Like I just don't want to pay that much for a bunch of espresso shots again if I don't have to. So I'm going to try it and if we were in this next tiramisu in a different way, then you know, it's all it's all about learning. It's all about the journey. That's,
Molly 19:48
that's right. That's what I always say about tiramisu. It's all about the journey. Yep.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:51
And we'll make it on April Fool's Day. So if it doesn't come out, we can claim it's a prank on ourselves. Okay. Have you ever pranked yourself
Molly 19:59
I Have no like I have I have not I mean not intentional right, Matthew, we have some spilled mail
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:12
this build mail comes to us from listener Jeremy who writes Hi Matthew and Molly listener Jeremy here, huge fan of the podcast and if both your respective individual works, I'm a student at Pomona College who just completed a semester abroad in Kyoto and am now enjoying the unbearable humidity of a Tokyo summer thanks to an internship at a local university. I know Matthew spent some time at Pomona and if you're wondering the food at Ferry dining hall has improved somewhat. Prometheus is still member lists and it's still the subject of much conversation. My first time in Japan was on a family trip back in 2014. When I was around 11 years old, I've always had something of an interminable appetite. So in the months leading up to the trip, my mother suggested that I read Matthews book pretty good number one, I think she thought it would be a good opportunity to get her fifth grader interested in something other than video games, but this move totally backfired on her. Not only did I read the book, I became obsessed with it. After we arrived, I dragged my family around on the Matthew December food tour of Tokyo, insisting to their chagrin that we had to try yakitori chicken tails and temporary eel bones 10 years later, I'm back in Japan and I'm still eating bone GT which is chicken tail. Every chance I get though the eel bones are safe for special occasions. Love the podcast and love everything you guys do. Tokyo misses you both sincerely listener Jeremy.
Molly 21:23
Listen to me God That must make you feel so good. Matthew
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:26
and the listener Jerry has a super fun Instagram, which is at Jeremy eats Japan. And it also has a sub stack that is linked from there so I'm happy to plug both of them
Molly 21:39
delightful. Thanks listener Jeremy.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:41
Molly, what's your snack in? Hey, watch your snacking. Daddy gotta tell me what you snack in. Oral Release the Kraken. So what's your snack in?
Molly 21:53
Just so you know, we're recording this episode kind of far in advance. As a matter of fact, it's still summer when we're recording this and yesterday, I was at the lake with a couple of friends. Our friends had brought along a couple cans of canned cocktail. And it was a Paloma. So grapefruit tequila. Anyway, the brand was straight away, which I think is from Portland, Oregon. And oh my god, these straightaway brand papillomas were
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:27
so delicious. Oh, that's awesome. I love a Palumbo.
Molly 22:31
Oh my God, it was really, really good. And so you know, it's not like the usual kind of thing I snack on. It sounds it sounds snackable but it was afternoon and we were by a body of water. And it was a delicious snack.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:46
That sounds awesome. So straight away cocktails the Paloma.
Molly 22:49
That's right, Matthew, I hear you have got a now but wow.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:00
So I about halfway through a memoir called everything I learned I learned in a Chinese restaurant by Curtis chin. And this is just such a beautifully written memoir. It's Curtis grew up in his family's Chinese restaurant in Detroit. The book is is fundamentally about the fact that like when he was growing up, it seemed like every every kid he knew was black or white and heterosexual. And he was none of these things. But it's also a love letter to Chinese American food. And I feel like I'm realizing that only like in the past, you know, 1020 years has Chinese American food really like gotten its do as one of the world's great cuisines which it totally is. And this book is just so much about that and and Curtis is really lovable character. So I am really enjoying it.
Molly 23:48
It's delightful. So that's everything I learned I learned in a Chinese restaurant by Curtis chin.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:54
Our producer is Abby circuito Ella, and you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts and you can hang out with other listeners at everything spilled milk.reddit.com And talk about like what pranks you pulled on each other or like what kinds of crystals you've reconstituted recently. Yeah, be Crystal Light.
Molly 24:11
Oh, maybe Rose Quartz.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:12
Is that is that just like a rock?
Molly 24:16
Yes. Yeah. So hey, thanks for listening to the show. Show that synonymous with the product.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:25
Wow I am I have the product. Ah,
Molly 24:34
so am i
Alright, no. Ah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:44
Hi, Martin.
Molly 24:47
Hi, Matthew.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai