We're in our cave era as we discuss our foodie memories of these specialty cheeses. We get real fancy with dumbwaiters, castles and a coat of arms as we look for a nice dense mass that isn't smeary and gluey. Matthew gaslights Molly and learns something new before dreaming big by dreaming small while Molly updates us on literal spilled milk.
Fine Cooking potato galette
The production of Gruyère AOP video
Speaker 1 0:00
Hi, I'm Molly, and I'm Matthew. And
Molly 0:06
this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious, eat it all, and you can't have any. And
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:11
today we're talking about glue. Yeah, I didn't know I was going to try and say it with a friend, Jackson, and I want to take it back. Today we're talking about gruyere cheese. Great.
Molly 0:19
Gruyere is a cheese that I know both of us have appreciated for a very long time and continue to appreciate and continue to appreciate. And so we were really excited when recently, the Gruyere people, that's le guierre AOP, sent us some free stuff, but this is not actually a sponsored episode. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:37
No, did they send us a Gruyere hat? Yes, does that mean it's a sponsored episode? No, we can say anything we want about this cheese, but we're probably gonna say that we like it because it's good.
Molly 0:45
Matthew, so I think that I first remember learning about this cheese when I worked at Whole Foods. Of course, this was like Mill Valley in Mill Valley, I think this was maybe the summer of 1999 and I was working behind a specialty foods counter, which is what they call the section, or at least they used to call the section, where they were like olives, cured meats, cheeses and wine. That was a specialty. It's very special. So special, I feel like Gruyere, or the specifically, cave aged gruyere. Yes,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:18
I'm so glad you mentioned that. I forgot that term until just now. But yes, I feel
Molly 1:23
like it was just coming into popularity around that time, or like it was, it was a little trendy to carry cave aged groups absolutely and so, yeah, I remember that being a thing that we had and a term that we were using. And this stuff's delicious, yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:41
So my memory is also kind of like a late 90s, early 2000s like foodie memory, which was a recipe that I've talked about many times, that came from a issue of fine cooking magazine from about that time, definitely a Susie Middleton recipe for a potato, galette, thin sliced Yukon gold potatoes, Parmigiano Reggiano and Gruyere and lots of olive oil and shallots and some kind of herb, I think. And you just bake it till the cheese gets all crispy and the potatoes are perfectly cooked.
Molly 2:13
And wait a minute, is this the potato galette you made for bistro night? It's a bistro night classic. Okay, yeah, okay, that sounds so perfectly French and so perfectly like 1990
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:26
something, yes. But I still, yeah. I still have one of my favorite things to make. I get to pull out the mandolin and slight thin slice of potatoes on the mandolin. It occurs
Molly 2:34
to me that when I say the phrase cave aged Gruyere, what I think I used to imagine was like, an actual cave.
Unknown Speaker 2:41
Oh,
Molly 2:41
100% Yeah. Like, stalactites, stalagmite
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:44
stalagmites, yeah, as we'll learn, comes in, like, pretty large wheels. They probably like, you know, spindle those onto stalagmites. There we go. And that's how they age them. And then they
Molly 2:57
break off a stalactite from the ceiling, and they maybe use that to cut it up
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:04
and and once, once again, we did the thing again. Where now people, people realize that we might be smart because we know the difference between stalactites and stalactites. I think we got them correct. I kind of think that, like every eight year old kid who's ever like true gone through like a rocks and crystals phase. Knows what those are, yeah, or just like a cave phase, a cave phase, cave, cave phased children. I'm still in a cave phase. I like hearing about, like, I feel about caves the same way I do about horror movies. I love reading about them, including, like, cave disasters, but I don't want to go into one myself. The
Molly 3:38
only one I've gone into, I think, was in Italy somewhere, and, yeah, we had to go down a bunch of stairs. But, you know, like, the mouth of it was really big, and it had been made into, like, a real attraction, which made me feel like maybe they've been, like, seismic retrofitting or something.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:53
I was reading about, I don't remember, like, how we got started on this, but, but Watts and I were reading about, like, some cave somewhere in the Western United States, where there was a, like, the elevator went out, like, stopped with people, and it was like, stuck in the elevator shaft, in the cave for hours and hours. I have, like an, this is like, I cannot think of anything
Molly 4:13
worse. I have, like a, like a bottomless hunger to read and watch documentaries about stuff like that. Oh, sure,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:19
I'm too scared. I was afraid, just like when Watson was reading off Wikipedia about it.
Molly 4:24
We watched the documentary about the Thai soccer team. Of course, it got stuck in the cave. I did follow that story. It was incredible. We also, I also read, I've read a New Yorker article about extreme caving, and I've also read New
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:39
York I read that article. You told me about it, and I read it,
Molly 4:44
yeah, and then I also read an article about some miners that were trapped, and they were the Chilean miners. No, not the maybe it was, oh, maybe it was the Chilean miners. But they weren't trapped in like an elevator shaft or something. I mean, they had, they were in like a break. Room. They're like, they had access to, like, a room down there, right?
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:03
No, that the the Chilean miners weren't in an elevator shaft, although I don't know if they had a break room, like a microwave and like a break cave. This was like some, like, a couple of tourists were stuck in it, and then in the like, there they were interviewed, like in the article after they were rescued, and they and they were like, they've invited us back to visit the cave another time for free, and we're gonna go. They're like, what?
Molly 5:31
Oh, man, oh, wow, totally, your
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:34
kind of people. It's like, yeah, like, like, I was, I managed to survive the Titanic. And, like, marching Titanic to do you want to? Do you want a free ride? Of course, it wouldn't happen again.
Molly 5:48
Okay, Matthew, but, but let's, let's talk about what cave aged actually means. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:54
I did the research, so you're asking me, right? Yes. Okay, so let's, let's start by asking, like, what is Greer fine? What is gruyere? All right? Gruyere is a Swiss cheese made since the 12th century in the gluer region of Switzerland. Okay, Mr. Etymology is here and is pleased to tell you that we actually know where the name comes from, like it seems to be it seems to be undisputed that Gruyere comes from the French word glue, which means crane, like the bird, which is a symbol of the area and has been for a very long time, I put on our agenda, and we'll link to it in the show notes. The Gruyere coat of arms, which has a very is it
Molly 6:33
on the Gruyere it might be, oh, no, the Gruyere logo is just like the it's got, like a little Swiss flag, right? Cheese
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:40
wheel we got. We got a key chain sent to us by locally, AOP. But how would you describe, like, the basic vibe of this bird? Oh, this the bird on this, on this coat of arms. I mean, it's definitely strutting. Oh,
Molly 6:54
this bird is strutting. This bird is a party bird. It's got Riz. This. He's got Riz. He fully has Riz. He is nearly peacocking, even totally, while not being a peacock, he looks great. So this is delightful. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would love to wake up on any given day feeling like this bird looks,
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:13
yes, me too. That's exactly it maybe like, Could we just adopt this as the coat of arms for our show? Okay? Like, is there any law against that? I
Molly 7:21
don't think so. Okay, we'll, we'll share it in the show notes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:25
Okay, Grier does not have eyes like a like, you think of this swiss cheese that's like an Emmentaler or yarlsburg thing. I know yarlsburg is a Norwegian cheese, but it's like a Swiss type cheese. Yeah. Grier is a hard cheese in the sense of, like cheddar level hardness, not like Parmesan level hardness, although called like semi firm, maybe semi firm, I always think of cheddar as a semi firm. Yeah, is it? Would you take it to the semi formal? I would, I would, I would take this bird to the semi formal. Long age. Gruyere can be a bit crumbly. Grie is an as an AOP cheese, meaning protege and that. So we've talked about, like AOP and AOC and Doc things. So like, AOC in Switzerland is just for wines and any other food, food or drink item is AOP, okay? In the US, Gruyere is a generic term with no trademark protection, so you should look for the Gruyere AOP, or just AOP on the label, if you looking for the real stuff. And French Comte is a similar cheese made in France, and we taste that too. Oh, good.
Molly 8:35
Okay. I hope we can talk about like the difference between Conte Beau Fauci like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:41
I hope so too. I didn't do any research on that, but I hope we could talk about, okay,
Molly 8:45
I mean, I'll see what I can do. I think it has to do with, like, winter and summer, and different milks and things, all right, really, also different places,
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:54
oh, yeah, like the Comte region, the Gruyere region, and
Molly 8:58
those are in the What am I doing? I'm getting ahead of myself. Gruyere was
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:02
first produced in the early 12th, 12th century, in the canton of free Burg, or Freiburg. I've been to Freiburg, really? Yeah. Have you been to, like, all the cantons?
Molly 9:13
Yeah? Yep. I'm glad you asked. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:16
I love that. I like something about the Word Canton is very appealing. Like, like, like, you know, they just like, we're Switzerland. We don't do things like another. We don't have like, you know, states or provinces. We have Canton.
Molly 9:28
Totally different. Is the language Cantonese. In Canton, it is not okay, just checking so you would
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:35
think so. No, the gray air region borders the shores of Lake no Chatel, which I mentioned only because it sounds very scenic, but they have a new castle there. Ah, I didn't even think about that, but I bet they, yeah. I bet they have a brand new castle that just debuted, 2024 maybe even 2025 even 2025 by the time you hear this, yeah, they the they had an old castle too old tore it down, built a new one, and the new ones got. Like, What features do you think they'd have Newcastle? In
Molly 10:04
the Newcastle? Well, they definitely have, like a Jacuzzi tub. Yep,
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:07
they have a they have, like a deep fryer, like a commercial deep fryer, for their boiling oil. None of this, none of this cauldron shit. I like to
Molly 10:16
think they still have a dumb leader, though. Yeah, we should
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:18
remind people like I buy at this point. We don't even know if we would have heard of it, heard from anyone yet. But if you have ever listened to spilled milk in a castle, contact at spilled milk podcast.com, it's fine. Like, if you're out, like, you know, on vacation in Europe, and you happen to be in a castle while listening to our Brussels sprouts episode or something, that counts, it does. You don't have to, you don't have to live in a castle. Yeah, exactly. You can just be passing through. By the 17th century, Gruyere was a cheese with an international reputation. It was being exported all over Europe. And in 1762 Yes, like,
Molly 10:49
the kind of, like, a reputation, like that bird goes to school, dances with any guy who asks it was that kind of reputation? Like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:57
like, it was, it had a it was a cheese with a reputation for promiscuity, and we're and we support that, because our podcast is sex positive, music negative. Did I get it right? This time? Got it right? Okay, so in 1762 the word was recorded as a French word by the Academy France says, Do you know how this process works? I don't know how it works, but I know it exists. Okay, great. By the 19th century, imitators abounded, boo hiss. I mean, if it was good, like, who cares, right? Okay, but production wasn't really totally standardized until the AOC AOP designation in 2001
Molly 11:35
that's so interesting. I wonder why the I mean, I don't know the history of the AOC and AOP designations period? I don't either, but it's interesting that it took that long, or that it was relatively decent. It's not
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:47
that it wasn't standardized at all. Is that this, this, you know, codified it and sort of like smoothed off some of the rough edges of what you could and couldn't call gruyere. That makes sense. Like one of the rules is that the milk can't be transported more than 20 kilometers to the cheese making facility. Oh, that's fantastic.
Molly 12:05
That's a very short distance. Yes, wow. Okay, so how is this stuff made? Let's get around to the cave part. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:11
I've been talking so much and haven't even gotten to the cave. Okay, but we'll get there. I promise. We have we have some cheeses here to taste like that. We can do Chase anytime. Okay,
Molly 12:19
maybe when we get into talking about the the aging of these cheeses, smart, maybe taste different ones. Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:25
Gruyere is a full fat raw milk cheese made by a cooperative of 160 cheese makers that buy their milk from 1800 small farmers. Okay, these are very, very small farmers. Very pleasing numbers. The milk is inoculated with starter cultures, curdled with rennet and then, according to the lucarier website, after 35 to 40 minutes, the VAT has turned into a nice dense mass. Oh, wow. A nice dense, dense mass. Then the mass is cut up in the vat using a cheese harp, which looks exactly like you would expect.
Molly 12:56
I think I've seen other I think I've seen a cheese harp,
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:59
yep, once the harped mass, I they didn't use the word harped, I did, and I'm very proud of myself. Okay, once the harped mass is the right temperature and texture, it's pressed into a large mold with a high pressure plunger then left for a day, like if you're gonna die at the Gruyere factory, it's gonna involve this plunger, for sure. For sure. The next day, the molded mask gets a 24 hour brine bath. Try it. Your skin will turn into a protective ride. Yes. And then that protective rind is tended for about three months, mostly by machine, to brush it and keep it smooth and moist. We'll put a link brushed with so think it's brine. It's it's like, it's not even brushed with brine necessarily. It's just kind of massaged. I think it's like, as the cheese, like, weeps a little. You don't want water to be, like, collecting at any one spot. You want it to be kind of, like evenly moist and, like, smoothed out regularly. And we definitely are gonna link to a video of these machines in action, because, like, it's picking up, like, a, you know, more than 50 pound wheel of cheese, and kind of manhandling it and, like, smoothing it and rotating it is
Molly 14:06
really cool. We treat cheeses better than we treat ourselves. I mean, I did just say it was manhandled, but, yeah, but be like, just picked up, and sort of yes, this
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:16
is, like our theme on the show that we want to be picked up by a giant right?
Molly 14:21
It's one of our community
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:24
goals. It's one of our community goals, yeah, like hashtag, harp goals.
Molly 14:32
Okay, so I'm guessing that after that three months, I mean is that, does that three months count as like, part of the aging process? This
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:40
was what I was kind of trying to figure out. So, kind of No, because who hasn't heard of affinage? Like the process of aging cheeses the three months is before the apnaj. So this happens at the at the cheese maker, like one of the 160 cheese makers. But then, after getting messed. Cost for three months, then it goes off to the offender. And there's only 11 of those. And there are big cheese, like, climate controlled cheese warehouses. And these are the caves. These are the caves, yes, okay. And so
Molly 15:11
by cave, do they mean COVID, like a cellar? They mean,
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:15
yeah, it's a seller. The cheese is stored at about 15 degrees Celsius, a little cold, like cold room temperature on racks in a room that is like 90 to 98% humidity. That's very high, very high. So if the if the humidity gets too low, then the cheese develops cracks, and it's not good. If the humidity gets too high, above 90 98% which is apparently possible. Quote, the cheese does not mature and become smeary and gluey, according to Wikipedia, yeah, this could, I mean, and this could happen to your children. Also, it may not mature and may become smeary and gluey.
Molly 15:49
So the length of affinage, or the duration of affinage, varies tremendously, yes. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:55
your most basic, like supermarket career, and we should say this is a widely sold cheese. Like, you know, my local Safeway, which is not a high end supermarket in any way, has two different kinds of real gruyere. Wait, but does Safeway have a Murray's Cheese counter? No, that's QFC. Safeway just has like, the kind of mass market, like, you know, Lucerne cheddar section, and then they have, like the deli Island section that has like, kind of nice cheeses, like, nothing, nothing super special, outrageous, but, like, that's where you'll find your Parmigiano Reggiano and Gruyere, okay?
Molly 16:27
And then I guess it's Kroger. Kroger stores like QFC and Fred Meyer that
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:31
have a Murray's counter that has some, like, more interesting cheeses, but, but, yeah, but you, you can probably find real Gruyere, no problem. The basic one is aged for five months. That's how long it spends in the cave. How long? How long have you spent in a cave?
Molly 16:44
Oh, six months. Okay, so you're, I'm better, you're better than the average. So let's
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:50
start by tasting this. This is the five month Gruyere AOP right here.
Molly 16:55
And generally, the the older it is, the more expensive it tends, the more expensive. Because you're, like, paying rent on the cave. You're paying
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:02
rent on the cave, you've lost more water, which is the cheapest part of the cheese. Okay,
Molly 17:07
okay, so there's five months, and it's good, really good. Like, yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:12
I have no problem, but it's not, it's not like, a super complex cheese, but it's very tasty. This is the one you made our grilled cheese. It's the one I made our grilled cheese. Oh yeah, I forgot to even mention we ate Gruyere grilled cheeses before we started the episode. Oh, that. I like that a lot. Yeah, it's a great melting cheese. It's got, like, a good chewy texture even after it melts. Yeah, nothing wrong with that at all. Great. Then next, we've got one that this one's aged for. Actually, I'm gonna get the package the the Gruyere reserve has to age for at least 11 months. I'm gonna check and see if it says how long this one's aged. Slightly
Molly 17:42
more crystalline texture, crystalline, crystalline, Crystal
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:48
Light. Oh, yeah, I brushed it with every day with Crystal Light for three months. This is 11 months aged. Oh, thank you.
Molly 17:57
Love the texture still like, quite creamy, but, yeah, it does have that real, that really nice little they're calcium crystals, right? Calcifications.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:07
They're crystals of some of some one or more amino acids that form a crystal, I believe. Okay, so it wouldn't be calcium, then probably not calcium. Okay, there is, I mean, there is calcium in there. Okay,
Molly 18:18
so we've got, we've done five months, we've done 11 months, and now we've got,
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:22
so I've got a Comte, Comte here from France. This is Geli, not Comte, okay? And it says, This one says aged over 10 months. And it has, it also has a picture of a bird, but it's not a crane. What kind of bird Do you think this is? Oh, that looks like a quail or a pheasant, looks like a quail or a pheasant or something very different flavor.
Molly 18:44
This one seems a lot younger than the 11 month old. It
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:48
does, even though it claims to be only one month younger, but, but like, if you think about like a like a human baby, like between 10 and 11 months, a lot of things can happen. So a lot of things can happen, is what I said. I
Molly 18:59
noticed that we don't have any cave aged gruyere. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:03
I think cave aged is a marketing term that you can put on any gruyere. That's that's like the COVID being in an affinage COVID. And so I think maybe they don't, they just don't use the term as much anymore. I
Molly 19:15
think you're right. But I I feel like the Gruyere that I bought most recently was more aged than either. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:22
sure, I just went to Safeway. You can definitely get Greer age more than 11 months. It's going to be more crumbly and more complex than this one. Having said that, the reserve is definitely my favorite,
Molly 19:32
I really like that reserve. I don't you know, actually the the Grier I bought most recently, which I think was at PCC or something, was almost a little bit like, a little harsh for just eating straight, sure,
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:46
like, spent too much time in the cave, yeah, a little too much time in the cave. Like, grizzled, yeah.
Molly 19:50
Became like caveman,
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:53
like, like, Encino Man. That's, that's right, the three, the three places in the world you're allowed to make. Gruer, the grievre region, Encino, Encino. And what's the third one? Beaverton, Oregon, or Calabasas, Calabasas, Calaveras County. Yeah. I
um, there's a third type of Greer, like official type called alpage, which is made only for milk in certain high altitude regions. I don't have that one. They did not have it at Safeway. It's probably good. So
Molly 20:35
what is it that you know that we think of this stuff as being good for? Obviously, it's good for eating, but it shows up in a lot of recipes, right? Like, the first thing that comes to mind for me is, this is the cheese that I use in quiche
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:49
Absolutely, me too. It is, like, the quicheness cheese. It is the quiches cheese. Yeah. I like, yeah. I've been on a quiche, a quiche kick, or a quiche kik lately, and, like, have made some cheddar quiches, which are very good. But like, then, like, when I go back and make, like, a Gruyere, a quiche with Gruyere, like, I'm like, this is the way it's supposed to be. That's so good.
Molly 21:10
There's something about the flavor of gruyere with the flavor of butter, yeah, that, I think, is really, they're well matched, yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:19
So, speaking of which, like, I love putting Gruyere in an omelet. That's definitely what I'm gonna do with some of this leftover cheese. Just, yeah, just like Gruyere, it doesn't need anything else. Like, it's a perfect food. It's
Molly 21:32
a very good melting cheese. Yes, we had it in a grilled cheese, which you prepared, as you would, you know, a regular cheddar or American cheese, grilled cheese. And it was fabulous. It had a lot of flavor while still pressing all those like, easy to love grilled cheese buttons, yeah, and the cheese had a great pull. It did it really? It oozed, or it didn't ooze. Sorry, it oh no, you said it got stringy, in a way that cheddar doesn't. Oh, did I
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:00
mention that the that the final wheels of gruyere weigh 55 to 88 pounds.
Molly 22:04
That's a big rain, big rain. I guess it depends on how old they are, yeah. But also, like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:08
I don't think it would lose like, 33 pounds of water in the aging process, would
Molly 22:12
you well, but what maybe I would what then distinguishes, I think they're
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:16
made in like, slightly different sizes by different cheese makers, huh?
Molly 22:21
I feel like I can picture it like it seems like it's always, it's always drum All right,
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:27
we may, we may. Need to get an expert on this one. No, but, I mean, I can just email the LA Grier people. Okay,
Molly 22:32
okay, okay, wait, this is also the cheese to use in a gujer, yes, like a French cheese puff. Have you ever made those? I have. In fact, I believe I wrote about them for Bon Appetit 1 million years ago. Yep,
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:45
I've never made them, but I've certainly eaten them, and they're great. A
Molly 22:48
friend of mine made some on New Year's Eve, and she piped them onto sheet pans and froze them pre baked, and then she could, just, like, pull out a number of them, put them on a sheet pan whenever she wanted, and bake them off. So, so, like, pre baked, like she partially baked them. No, no, sorry. She piped unbanked. She piped the dough onto a sheet pan and froze it. Then she swept all those little dough blibs, blibb, it's into a plastic bag. And when she wanted to have Gruyere or gougers, she could just pull them out and bake. I as many as she wanted.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:31
You know how like you when you suddenly realize something, you're like, oh my god, I can't believe I didn't realize this, like, 100 years ago, the first time I heard it. What when something's par baked? Is that short for partially, yes, this never came together for me until right this second. Oh, wow. Par that's an interesting word, par baked. No, they're not par baked, okay, but wow. But anyway, this is gonna change me. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna start going into caves. I'm a different person. Now, what about
Molly 24:02
so other uses of this really good melting cheese? Fondue?
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:06
Yeah, fondue. So, like, fondue is, like, supposed to be made from kind of, like leftover ends of cheeses, including, always, gruyere. Pretty much
Molly 24:15
we should specify you don't eat the rind of gruyere, though, no,
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:19
although this one here has, like, a very thin rind, like the, I think you could eat, like, the basic one this, this, like, reserve one has, has kind of a nubbly rind that, I don't, yeah, it almost looked like,
Molly 24:29
looks like a bandage wrapped type vibe,
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:33
yeah, I don't think it is. I think it is just, like dried cheese and brine and stuff, yeah, but, but yeah, it's, it's like, beyond the point where you'd want to nibble on it. You probably, like, use it, like, throw it in, like a, like, a parmesan rind.
Molly 24:45
I don't feel that. I know enough about these, like, sort of cousin cheeses like Beaufort and Conte, to be able to talk about them. But they're French.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:55
Yeah, there's also, like, they make something called French Gruyere that. Has to be labeled as French Gruyere for when it's sold in Europe that's made on kind of, like, the French side of the Gruyere region. Yeah. Like, how does that differ from Comte? I don't know.
Molly 25:09
Yeah, I don't either, but I do know that some of these things have to do with, like, the grass that the cows were munching on, and, yeah, the time of year when the milk was extracted from the cow? Yes. So, like, what was what they were eating, basically affects the milk?
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:27
Yeah. Now this is interesting, like, the Comte is definitely, like, the least interesting of these three, but I don't think that's true of Comte as a rule. I think it's just happens to be this one. But
Molly 25:37
Conte, if given a choice, if I'm at, like, let's say a Marie's cheese counter, or something like that. If given a choice between Gruyere and Conte, I will generally buy the Conte. I tend to like it more as an eating cheese. Interesting.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:50
I would generally, generally buy the gruyere. Hmm. Well, it just seems like we can't hang out, I guess not. Well, we'll go, we'll go to the specialty foods counter together. We'll, we'll hang out with what, who is the celebrity, Robin Wright pen would sometimes come in. That's right, hang out with Robin Wright, yeah, I think, I think she dropped the pen, right? Yeah. We'll hang out with Robin Wright, and we'll find out more, and we'll find out. We'll find out more. That's right for classic segment. Let's find out more.
Molly 26:21
Well, Matthew, what have we learned?
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:22
We've learned that there are things about which we need to find out more. Okay, great, but we learned a lot of things about caves
Molly 26:31
we did. We learned a lot of things about ourselves, yes, and about the world, and about the word par, that's right, no, but in general, I really should be keeping this cheese around more, because at least every couple weeks, if not once a week, my family has basically scrambled eggs for dinner with, like, grated cheese mixed in, oh yeah. Call it cheesy eggs. Very inventive term, but I always just use Tillamook sharp cheddar and, wow, I think our cheesy eggs could, like, really be special if I had gruyere.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:02
You know what? I'm thinking, we sometimes do charcuterie night for dinner with, like, we'll get, you know, one of those, like, three different salami trays from, from Trader Joe's, yeah, then some, some kind of bread and some kind of cheese. This would be a great cheese for a charcuterie night. Perfect,
Molly 27:18
perfect. All right,
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:21
so let's first, let's do a future corporate retreat in the Gruyere region, or what were the other two places? Oh, Encino or Encino, whichever? We'll check, we'll check the tickets. Whichever one the tickets are cheaper for Encino or Switzerland. Okay, that's, your workout. I can't wait. Is Calabasas in California. Where's Calabasas? Why did it come? Why did it pop into your head?
Molly 27:49
Give me just a minute. Hold on. How about Panorama
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:53
City? Should we go there? I just like the name. Okay.
Molly 27:56
Calabasas is in the San Fernando Valley, okay? And I don't know, I just felt like it, it's a good name, yeah, wait a minute. Am I thinking of a different city, like, close to San Diego, that, like, is known for its caves, or something,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:13
maybe, oh, yeah, I don't think there is a cave, cave town in California, something. Cave. Oh, man, yeah, in California. This is, this is our, gonna be our new segment, Googling for caves in California. Oh,
Molly 28:28
I love the names. There's like, Boyden cavern, moaning caverns, oh, moaning caverns. Black chasm. Cavern, wow. Crystal cavern, crystal
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:38
caverns, I think, I think was a, was a indie band. Oh,
Molly 28:43
Calaveras. No, that's big trees, okay, Vasco caves. I don't know what the heck I was.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:49
There's like, ever, some, ever, some of our listeners, if not many, are yelling it at their podcasting device right now because, like, we're gonna think of it as soon as we finish recording. Yeah,
Molly 28:59
there's definitely nothing in Calabasas. I'm really sorry, Calabasas, but it's a great place to make cheese for other things, like cheese,
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:06
okay, like we but, yeah, you don't have to have a natural cave to make cheese. You can have an afina unnatural cave. You can have an unnatural This cave is unnatural.
Molly 29:18
That's what that's what we call your basement. Gotta go do my laundry. It's like
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:25
how I call my cabinet the root cellar. Yeah, go down to the unnatural I was just before you came over. I'd come up for the unnatural cave. I was holding some laundry. Yeah, cool.
Molly 29:35
Okay, well, Matthew, we have some spilled mail that really, wow. It poses a difficult question. It's
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:42
a tough one. It's a toughie, but, but a goodie, and I still don't really like have my answer locked in, so we'll see how this goes. Yeah, me too.
Molly 29:55
Today's spilled mail comes from listener Yuna. Hi, Matthew and Molly. I'm currently reading. Nora ephrons, I remember nothing and her chapter on how a dish at a restaurant was named after her, Nora's meatloaf made her proud of herself. In that vein, I'd like to turn the question to both of you, if you could have something, a food dish named after you, what would it be? What dish would capture your essence the best and make you feel seen, valued and heard. I think mine would be yuna's Kimchi pancake, because you can truly put anything in it and it will still taste amazing and importantly, like kimchi, because the strong flavor of fried kimchi is the foundational and unwavering essence of the dish. Thank you for your podcast and for the gift of my favorite parasocial relationship, the spilled milk of tears, reference to episode 599, are all Hashtag blessed to have you. Happy holidays. Happy New Year.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:50
Yuna, okay, this is a great question.
Molly 30:53
I spent a while yesterday thinking about this, and I feel really so I found myself wanting to give answers that were related to things that I've written about a lot in the past and that I think other people associate with me, like, for a while I wrote about banana bread, like, in nine times or something. I've written like, five granola recipes. I hear from a lot of people who make the winning hearts and minds cake from my first book. But those aren't necessarily things that I I don't know. I don't know if those are what I would choose personally. Okay, well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:30
you put you wrote here on the agenda soup, just like all you want all soup to be reading it out.
Molly 31:37
So a number of years ago, Helen Rosner wrote in the New Yorker about a soup recipe that she, I think, just sort of made up, kind of winging it, that she named Roberto. She and her husband named it Roberto, and now I make it all the time, and everyone in my household calls it Roberto. And I was just thinking, you know, maybe, like, if I were going to be if something were going to be named after me, maybe I would want it to be something that can be like an everyday, nourishing, delicious, kind of unpretentious food, like a soup.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:08
So I think for me, I agree with Nora Ephron on this, that like, the fact that it is a dish at a restaurant is the important part to me, like, because I don't, I don't think there's any chance that, like, you know, a thing that a lot of people that make at home would ever be named after me. And I know this is like a like an imaginary exercise, but I like I'm dreaming big by dreaming small. I want to feel like I made a small positive impact on the world that, like, Will will persist after I'm gone. Like, it has to be small because, like, I'm not going to make a big impact. So what I want is for there to be a restaurant, like, a great neighborhood restaurant where there was something I ordered with some variation, and that came to be called, like, the Matthew, okay, you know. And like, over time, like, no one even remembers that it would like, who the WHO Matthew was, but it, but it stays on the venue. So, like, like, I thought of a couple of examples, like one reel and a couple imagine, so when I was in high school, I think I've mentioned this before, you know, the the drink called, like, a depth charge, or a shot in the dark, or, like, you know that's, that's a it goes by many, many different names, but it's a drip coffee with an espresso shot in it. My history and anthropology teacher, Mr. Sweeney, would always order that. And so at our the Boyd's coffee location by my high school, they named it the Sweeney special. I don't even know if that coffee shop is still there, but if it is, I bet it's still called the Sweeney special. Oh, okay, isn't that delightful? That's delightful. So, like, also, so that got me thinking, like, what did I like to eat when I was in high school? There was this sausage placed in downtown Portland called Good dog, Bad dog, that I absolutely loved. And the thing I would always order was the magma dog Chairman style, which was, like the spicy Italian sausage. And Chairman style meant they flattened it into a patty and put, like, mozzarella on it, okay. Like, they did not name this after me, but, like, it would have been a great honor if they, if they like the Matthew meant bag of dog Chairman style. Okay, so what I was
Molly 34:18
thinking? Oh, so yeah, this is a, this is a, I think that you maybe understood the question better. No,
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:22
I don't know. I don't think so. Like, I think, I think, like, the whole point is that you can interpret it however you want. But like, does that mean I've actually come up with a real answer? Like, I know which restaurant I want it to be at. I want it to be at the yoru no taki location in nishiyo gikubo, because we just went there, like, a few weeks ago as a family, and it's like, the most wonderful little neighborhood chain restaurant, but that still has its own, like, neighborhood character. Their best dish that we've had, they have a big menu is their dashi maki Tamago, which is a rolled omelet that's, like, very juicy. It has lots of dashi in it. I'm not sure what the variation like, I like they couldn't just like name. Their existing, you know, very basic but perfect omelet after me. So it'd have to be some slight variation that I would ask for. But I'm not exactly sure what that would be. Maybe like, topped with some, with some, like, slice, thin slice Negi or something would be like, you know, the Matthew style. That's
Molly 35:19
fantastic. There we go. I like that. Okay, I'm gonna go with that, and I'm just gonna keep thinking about it, yeah?
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:25
Because I really, I really think, like, your answer was, like, more closer to to the Spirit, because Eunice said, like, like, it should be Eunice kimchi pancake, which is, like, you know, a basic
Molly 35:34
dish, yeah, okay, Matthew, we said on last week's episode that we were gonna check in about my car.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:41
This is really important. So recap, gosh, a couple weeks
Molly 35:45
ago, my car, the interior, began smelling really bad, and at first I thought it was because I had put a tarp down in the back and gone and, like, put a bunch of compost in the back of my car, right? But it wasn't that I vacuumed. We did all kinds of stuff, and then we determined it was some milk that had spilled from a bottle that I had brought for my son in the car on a trip, like five days earlier, right? So it was like the perfect window of time for the milk to begin. It's demonic. Oh, yeah, like transfiguration. Anyway, Carl's bad caverns, that's what you're trying to think of. Yes, okay, sorry to interrupt your story. Okay. Oh, I feel so,
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:33
wow. Okay, so you got a smelly card.
Molly 36:38
So my mom owns a Rug Doctor, so we borrowed the Rug Doctor, and ash really went for it with the Rug Doctor, all the way across the the back seat floor.
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:47
So your, your your father was, was like, like, a pretty prominent medical doctor, and your mother carries on the tradition as a Rug Doctor.
Molly 36:58
Okay, yeah, anyway. To make a long story short, the Rug Doctor helped, but it didn't help that much. Okay? And, like, it was especially dispiriting because each day last week, like, June would get in the car for me to, like, drive her somewhere, and she'd be like,
Speaker 1 37:12
like, I would try and be polite about it, but not a child. No,
Molly 37:16
no. It was making me feel real bad. So guess what? Over the weekend, we looked up prices for detailing. Oh, yeah, yeah, here we go. My car got detailed this morning. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:28
so do you have, okay, how much did it cost? And do you have, like, any conclusion yet on, like, whether Matthew conquered the problem, unfortunately.
Molly 37:37
Okay, so here's how it worked. Ash was like, You know what? Let's I'm gonna look on Groupon and see if I can get, like, a deal for detailing. We found a mobile detailer that comes to you. Oh yeah, that was roughly the same price for mobile detailing as a place you have to, like, go to, right? But they were based out of Everett. I'm sorry this is a really long story, but you that's a long drive. You asked. So ash called them up before they bought the Groupon and was like, Hey, do you work on cars in Seattle? And they were like, Absolutely sure. We're all sold out of like, the Groupon rate for like this period of time. But I'll give you the Groupon rate and we'll we'll come anyway. Excellent. So there was a misunderstanding. Ash paid the Groupon rate, which was like, $245 or Sure. Okay. And the guy showed up this morning when I was leaving to come here today. I was driving Ash's car. Oh boy. Okay, I went to him, and I was like, I'm heading out. I know we've already paid. And he was like, no, no, no, you haven't paid. And I was like, I just saw it come through on my bank this morning. Oh boy. And he was like, I have not received any payment. And I was like, we bought through group Groupon, like you said. And he was like, I said, not to buy through Groupon. I said to pay me directly. So Matthew, as of right this moment, I have spent like, $500 oh boy, to have my car detailed. And we've submitted, like, anyway, we paid the Groupon rate, yeah. And we've submitted for a refund from Groupon. But all that said, can you believe never is milk getting in my car ever again, unless it's because I'm bringing it home from the grocery store. I cannot believe how much money this crap costs.
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:16
Oh, yeah, I was expecting it to be more. Well, the other
Molly 39:19
thing is that Matthew, because I needed to be here before he finished my car, and because I've driven Ash's car to get here today, I wasn't there when he finished. Oh, so you don't even know if it's like, left the key under the mat, and I don't even know if it's fixed. What if
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:35
you what? If you go home and you get into your car and it smells like something completely different, but just as bad
Molly 39:40
I'm gonna have ash deal with it. Okay, great. Also, also this guy, even though he was like, perfectly nice, he kept referring to ash as my husband, and that drove me. Yeah, that's not cool. That was not cool. He spoke on the phone to ash. Ash does not have a man's voice. Yeah? All right, so anyway, but anyway he my husband is gonna open up a can of whoop ass. On this guy. Okay?
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:01
Like, my car still, if you need me to, like, pose as your husband and, like, be a tough guy, you probably can't, like, you shouldn't do that.
Molly 40:09
Okay? No, no, I think my car is gonna smell better. I think it's gonna be fine. But we will $45 later, we will
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:16
check in on this. So next week we're gonna check in. Like, how does the car smell, and did you get the Groupon, this could be like, you know, you laugh now, but this, this could be, like, our longest running segment,
Molly 40:32
I know. I wonder what complication is gonna get thrown in next week. Yeah, no
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:38
problem. That can turn into a segment. Oh, Matthew, you know, like, just give it some time. I'm sure. Yes, your dishwasher will stop working again or something. Oh, yeah. I mean, that happened recently, but, like, yeah, or your unnatural basement will develop a smell, yeah. I mean, our unnatural basement gets like, broken into and robbed pretty regularly, Okay, last time, like, they didn't take much stuff from our storage space. I think we had like, a six pack of, like, Amazon paper towels in there, and that was the main thing they stole. Wow.
Molly 41:05
Well, you know, I think if I were gonna steal something like that, I would go for something that is, like a basic item. I hope they,
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:13
like, they had, like, a big spill. I think they probably, I
Molly 41:18
think it was probably the guy who's detailing my car
Unknown Speaker 41:21
only needed some supply. Wow,
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:25
defamation, wow,
Molly 41:26
no, but don't call my spouse my husband. I don't like
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:30
I won't Okay. Our producer is Abby sercatella. You can rate and review us wherever you get podcasts. Please check in with other listeners at everything spelled milk.reddit.com. I want to hear like, listener answers to listener Eunice question, like, what food or restaurant item would you like to be named after you? Yeah,
Molly 41:47
yeah. I would love to read those answers too. I've got
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:50
another idea. This isn't even like a thing I care a lot about. But like, what if your name became like a style available at in and out on the secret menus? Like, you know, like, I want, I want, like, a double, double Molly style. Okay, we could talk on a future episode about, like, what our burger Styles would be
Molly 42:07
cool. All right. Well, thanks for listening to spilled milk, and
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:11
thanks for doing it. Matthew style,
Molly 42:14
what about Molly style? Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:16
that was just my outro. Like, hey,
Molly 42:18
thanks for doing it. Molly style.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:27
What I want is to feel like I would be able to jump in and do all the right objections
Molly 42:32
so your spouse will like you better when you're having conversations with them. And you can be like, Objection,
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:37
yeah, that's right. No, that's, that's what, that's what girls like, and then you also be, like, sustained. That's right, I was overturned. Maybe, maybe I need to, like, bring in a judge. Maybe so.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai